Frustrated with a sail loft!!!!!

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:01 am

Some of you may remember my search last fall for some decent used sails for Lady Jo.

well, the search was not fruit full so at the suggestions of some of the sailors here I opted to get new sails from a specific loft.

I placed my order in Late February however I forget the exact date and am to lazy to figure it out however my credit card was charged for the full amount of the sails on February 26. Since the loft was slow and per them I ordered before the busy season, I was given an April 1 Ship date! Woohoo! I assumed since my card was debitted that my sails were being made!! With this assumption I failed to "check in" with the loft to confirm all was well. My expectations were indeed set.

<FF> to April 15.
Hmm, no sails and no communication from the loft. I'd better call.
So I called in on April 15 to check the status of my sails. I got straight in and was told quite frankly two weeks for ship date! Yeah! A little late but hey, why not. That can be expected. Disappointed? Yes, however as a part of the "ME NOW" generation, I can choke down the delay and keep on sailing!

<FF>
May 4th
Where's my sails? Hmm, April 15 plus two weeks equals April 29 plus maybe 6 days shipping . . . . Better check in and confirm they are coming. Sheesh, the loft did indicate they'd let me know when the sails shipped. Maybe I missed the notice . . . . . .

So . . . The call again. Guess what. They are now working on my sails.Yeah, great. But they are willing to have the production manager ( or whatever his title is ) call me. No, lets conference him on now. They can't do that. I reply I can, what is his number? Well, that isn't happening . . . .

Great.

Well, to their credit, we did end up talking about ten minutes later. The manager was extremely apologetic, openly admitted they messed up, and even offered to overnight my sails. However, they will not be ready until almost June. An offer for a full refund was indeed offered.

(IN MY MIND >>>> OMG! You've got to be kidding . . . the origional estimate was 4-5 weeks. Per them, 1 week shorter than normal because of the slow season. Now . . 13 WEEKS! They will take 3 times the original ship date!!! If I cancel the order, there is likely no way I can get sails for the summer! IT IS NOW FULL SEASON!! They kind of have me by the short and curlys . . . . <<<<<)

So . . . . . What do I do. Well, I had already pinged folks that have bought multiple sails from this place and received glowing compliments.

So I bite my normally very verbose tongue and accept the now THIRD attempt at a reliable ship date.

OK, then, you probably have noted that I have not indicated the sail loft by name YET. I will.
However, I understand sometimes POO happens and someone gets screwed unintentionally.The company seems genuinely interested in making things good. If they indeed make good and satisfy me, I would prefer them named with a happy note. If I name them now, you may walk away with my frustrations not knowing the final outcome. However, I will indeed share my full and final experience with this company to everyone here along with several other forums good or bad.

If anyone is REALLY curious, I will share privately prior to final outcome. Just PM me.

Please note, this is indeed my perception of events. Rest asured the specific dates mentioned, promises, and my money being gone are indeed EXTREMELY acurate. I will share this link with the sail loft so they have oppurtunaty to reply to any of my comments or claims from their perspective should they desire.

I'd be very interested in the forums take on this subject. Again, there are those aware of the loft I'm dealing with. I would prefer to leave the loft unnamed until the final outcome. I do not want to end up happy and have them misrepresented. However a blisteringly PO'ed customer will happily share otherwise also.

Am I nuts expecting a company to actually deliver on their ship date? . . . Second ship date??? And now third ship date?
Is 13 weeks a reasonable amount of time to wait for basic cruising sails for a 22'er?

Thanks for letting me vent . . . . . . .

Captain Scott Ziegler
www.captainscottsailing.com

PS: If you read this, seriously, please chime in. Should the loft actually check this link, I would them to know that as customers, we are indeed listening . . . . . . .

DenaP · Post by **DenaP** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:28 am

Gads! The whole episode sounds like a nightmare....However, in my professional life I deal with contract and procurement issues all day and I have found that once a vendor has all of your money, you have lost all of your leverage. The most you should give a vendor up front is 50% of the total cost, excluding shipping and tax.

I will look carefully for your post on how this works out, since I had considered using the same vendor for my sails....

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:38 am

FYI:
I just sent this email <minus names> to the Production Manager of the sail loft.

I do not want anyone to think I'm trying to be unfair to the sail loft. They are now aware of my post and are OPENLY INVITED to comment if they deem necessary.

Good morning ******** ( Managers Name),
Thank you for your call this morning.

I do hold hope that we can get the sails delivered.

I have expressed my frustrations on a smaller forum specific to Chrysler sailboats.
In fairness to you and *******(Company name) , here is a link to my comments.
http://www.chryslersailors.com/discussi ... php?t=1040

This will not only allow you to read my comments but to over time read how others react to what I have said.
I would welcome and openly invite you to join and comment for yourself if anything I have said is contrary to what you believe is the order of events or maybe just acknowledge you too are aware of the post I have made. Totally your call.

Again, I appreciate your call and expect further updates as things progress with my sails.
Should they be delayed again, please do not hesitate to let me know in advance.

Scott Ziegler
http://www.captainscottsailing.com

EmergencyExit · Post by **EmergencyExit** » Tue May 05, 2009 11:24 am

EE is watching - there's a set of C26 sails out there to be made soon. By somebody.

Non-communication -to me, that's a more serious issue than the late running order.

NYCSAILOR · Post by **NYCSAILOR** » Tue May 05, 2009 1:22 pm

IIRC you were originally soliciting a group order....wow...imagine if they had to make a fleet's worth of sails....who knows how long that wait would be!

are you getting some exotic sails requiring special manufacuring or attention?

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:46 pm

NYCSAILOR wrote:IIRC you were originally soliciting a group order....wow...imagine if they had to make a fleet's worth of sails....who knows how long that wait would be!

are you getting some exotic sails requiring special manufacuring or attention?

At this point I am very pleased the "GROUP" order did not go through. I would have felt horrible for everyone involved.

My order includes a basic cruising 110 jib per original specs. ( Genoa ) Nothing special. It also includes a main sail per original specs including the Chrysler decal. I did however order a loose footed main instead of a bolt rope and two reef points.

No special materials. No triradial, no exotic materials. Nothing.
This simply appears to be a case where my order simply became a lower priority than what other work needed to be done. Now that last statement was a comentary with my opinion.

I did indeed receive an email from said manager indicating he had read my post here and he indicated I represented the situation quite fairly. He also promised to keep me updated on my order.

The only thing keeping me from going ballistic is that these are replacements for sails I already own so I'm not without sails. My intent was to fully rig Lady Di with the extra sails so she is indeed sitting effectively naked in my driveway until I get the sails.

Scott

Bhacurly · Post by **Bhacurly** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:23 pm

Ouch! Bummer Scott!

Hope it gets resolved quickly for you and your school!

I'll be needing a set for my C22 and the Catalina 27 when done...

I'll be watching also...

Billy

2nd generation · Post by **2nd generation** » Wed May 06, 2009 5:01 am

In a forum like this, most boats in the 30 plus age range, sails are going to be needed quite often. The service one member gets effects what the rest of us do. Rig-Rite is a prime example. I am about to order a mast step from them based on the great comments from members here.

We are all waiting to hear how this turns out for you. Please keep us informed.

NYCSAILOR · Post by **NYCSAILOR** » Wed May 06, 2009 6:23 am

2-G, you are so right, the only way to encourage vendors to support us is to show the strength, size, and commitment of our fleet ; share info , good and bad , and vote with our dollars.

IdaSailor is another good example... they had lots of spare and replacement parts for the Chrysler fleet until a few years ago and it is up to us to let them know that there is greater demand than ever as our fleet ages.

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Wed May 06, 2009 7:06 am

I whole heartedly agree! The way I see it is if the vender of choice knows we are talking and sharing information, they may realize it can immediately and directly affect their SAILS! ( sorry ) .

Bad news spreads like wild fire. Good news like molasses but it does spread.

The way I see it is if I do not get positive resolution, my bank has already agreed to reverse the charges. It'll cost me some but hey, I'd get most back. Also I'd be willing to bet most folks here belong to more than one forum. I most certainly do. I will immediately provide a link to everyone I know in the sailing world to this issue and it will include names of people and Company.

Conversly, if all ends well, I can also spread the news. I specifically went to this vender and stayed with it because of good news.

Given the already listed number of folks intereseted in new sails, I hope the vender realizes they can directly affect whether or not they'd be even considered as a supplier.

The vender does indeed present itself as genuinley interested in making things right. I will allow them this last chance.

Thanks for all the support and yes indeed, I will update EVERY step of the way right here so you can watch and judge for yourself. I was told I would be updated next week as to the status.

Again, thanks for your support here!!!!!!!!
Scott

Alanhod · Post by **Alanhod** » Wed May 06, 2009 12:59 pm

Wow, I thought you had already gotten them. I had my checkbook in hand. Looks like I'm putting it away now.

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Wed May 13, 2009 10:58 am

I was promised an update early this week on my sails.
The update never came so I checked in with the loft.

Per them, they will ship overnight on the 22 of this month.

Fingers still crossed but extremely aware of the promised update that never showed . . . . . .

Scott

lecker68 · Post by **lecker68** » Wed May 13, 2009 6:49 pm

I was saving to get some new sails and I am going to wait and see how this pans out. I thought you had gotten them already and thank you for letting us know.

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Wed May 20, 2009 10:01 am

Today I was notified via email that my sails are basically done and will be in my hands by Friday!

This I believe was the very first unsolicited update from the sail loft.
I hope the sails arrive as promissed and I hope they are exceptional.

Destiny will be on the hard starting Friday so having new sails on Lady Jo will be nice!

Scott

keysskipper · Post by **keysskipper** » Wed May 20, 2009 10:41 am

Scott, regardless if they arrive on time or not, I would never do business with them and they need to know it, I would have missed my sailing season if it was my order. Good Luck

KS

lecker68 · Post by **lecker68** » Thu May 21, 2009 8:12 pm

Scott I agree with KS. I would like to know which one please PM me.
Thank you Lyle

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Thu May 21, 2009 9:45 pm

keysskipper wrote:Scott, regardless if they arrive on time or not, I would never do business with them and they need to know it, I would have missed my sailing season if it was my order. Good Luck KS

Oh, they ARE NOT ON TIME. They are now more than TWICE the original estimated duration. However they WERE shipped overnight. Yeah. ( so sticky with sarcasm you could glue a toddler to a chair with it )

Hey Lyle,
you have a PM with my current Chrysler 22 sail loft named. Sorry, I spilled a bit of frustration along with it. Best of luck with your sail search. I most certainly hope you take into consideration my accounts here.

Rest assured, I WILL raise the sails, test them, and report here along with photos of good, bad or medeocre workmanship.

Sheesh, JUST MAYBE I'll get to put sails up on Lady Di for the first time tomorrow!

Scott

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Sat May 23, 2009 8:34 am

WELL - - - GOOD NEWS!

The sails finally arrived! Yup! got them sitting here next to me!
I hope to get them up on Lady Di in the driveway this afternoon!

FYI, At a glance they look pretty good but I have not pulled them completely out ot the sail bags yet.

I'll take photos!!

Scott

frankyd · Post by **frankyd** » Sat May 23, 2009 12:35 pm

My mainsail ripped today so I'll be paying attention to how your experience plays out. In the mean time I guess I'll learn about patching sails.

klassi1 · Post by **klassi1** » Wed May 27, 2009 6:45 pm

Any feedback on the sails? My mainsail will need to be replaced sooner rather than later.

Also, what were the measurements on the mainsail. I'm finding conflicting info. I've measured my current sail but want to be sure.
Thanks!

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Thu May 28, 2009 7:43 am

MY full feed back is here:
Click here

Scott

kokezaru · Post by **kokezaru** » Fri May 29, 2009 7:21 am

As an alternative, there is a company/loft in Monterey CA, that actually has OEM spec C22 sails "in stock". Unfortunately, I do not know the quality, but they claim to have a good product at a good price. You can check out thier website here: http://thesailwarehouse.com

They do not stock the C26 sails, but they can do custom or partial custom orders.

--Richard /) /)

Chrysler Sailors Forum

Frustrated with a sail loft!!!!!

Frustrated with a sail loft!!!!!

All ears.