Tiller Assembly

Tommy Monaco · Post by **Tommy Monaco** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:34 pm

So, with much excitement and very little fanfare I re-attached the rudder, rudder cheek (fixed, reinforced, welded, straightened) and tiller assembly yesterday. I'd just like to run everything by you guys just to make sure it's been done correctly. As I've noticed in previous threads, much of our gear has been modified either by ourselves or P/O's but retains some continuity, so hopefully we can figure this out.
Unfortunately, the welding warped the rudder cheek and even after some hydraulic pressing it's still not perfect, but very good and solid. The only problem here is that the rudder has a more difficult time "kicking" up or down with the control lines through the rudder post. This isn't a huge issue since I leave it in a slip instead of trailering.
You'll notice from the pictures as well that I put on new nylon bearings (top and bottom) and a collar zinc just to be safe from any galvanic corrosion (because I did notice some pitting on the rudder post, I guess I can thank the P/O for that... he put the zinc at the TOP of the rudder post, just under the tiller assembly in the cockpit!).
Now here comes my major concern and question for the group. It seems that the only thing holding the rudder post UP (in the boat) is the clamping action of the tiller assembly. Is this correct? Doesn't this seem a little... unsafe? If the tension on that fails, what is left to support the rudder and the entire steering mechanism from heading straight down (sure, you could say that the rudder control lines would be cleated to the tiller, thus providing some back up safety, but at least for me that's only a jam cleat).
Maybe I'm just over-reacting and we've all been sailing using this mechanism without a single one loosing the rudder. Or, am I missing some other piece (a pin, bolt or something) that holds the rudder in place in case of some other failure?

The pictures for you visual learners out there:
https://picasaweb.google.com/shoemaker. ... 8666995170 Repaired Cheek
https://picasaweb.google.com/shoemaker. ... 2467382786 Fully assembled below the waterline.
https://picasaweb.google.com/shoemaker. ... 3734872386 Tiller Assembly. The C clamp is a temporary hold for the bolt that will eventually provide the grip on the rudder post.

And..... just for fun, to show off some of the other projects:

https://picasaweb.google.com/shoemaker. ... 5895601890 New motor-mount, fresh from powdercoating.
https://picasaweb.google.com/shoemaker. ... 9368251250 Before bottom paint.
https://picasaweb.google.com/shoemaker. ... 2630361106 After Bottom Paint.
I'm having a lot of fun getting this girl ready for the season!

astrorad · Post by **astrorad** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:24 pm

I don't know about the 26 but the my 22 has an aluminum collar under the tiller clamp that has three equally spaced bolts to clamp on the rudder post to support it.

Jmckamey · Post by **Jmckamey** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:32 pm

Same for me and all the other 22's I've seen. A collar with fastners to clamp onto the rudder tube.

Went back and looked at your pics. The collar in the "below the water line" picture looks like the collar that should be in the cockpit. I have just had a new rudder post and cheek assy made and I had an addition 5 inches added as to get the tiller off my shins.
Nice looking boat BTW

Tommy Monaco · Post by **Tommy Monaco** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:52 am

Ha, that's funny! Something must've happened to the original, because that's definitely a zinc! But it is all still compression based correct? There are no fasteners that go through the collar and into the post? Sounds like I've just been thinking about this too much.

Jmckamey · Post by **Jmckamey** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:44 am

Right, The bolts act as set screws.

lecker68 · Post by **lecker68** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:17 am

I like that motor mount

Tommy Monaco · Post by **Tommy Monaco** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:46 am

Yeah, I'm really happy with how it turned out. The bottom is open, so no more pooling water after the pencil sized drain hole clogs up. I'm on my way to the boat right now to put it on, I'll post some pic's here later tonight of the install and finished product on the boat.
Same guy made the nylon rudder post bearings, so if anyone is interested in similar stuff, I can put you in touch with him.

RedCanyon · Post by **RedCanyon** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:14 am

It looks to me like your PO used the zinc as a substitute rudder post retention collar. I have no zinc on my rudder post, but then, fresh water only, and even then only 5+ mos/year. :(

check out http://www.flickr.com/photos/sv_red_canyon/
to catch a glimpse (albeit only a glimpse) of my rudder post collar.

Note that neither retention collar (not my original nor your PO's zinc collar) pierce the rudder post, so that nothing interferes with the rudder swing lines.

Do you have a plan, beyond the c-clamp, for a rudder post retention system? :)

Alanhod · Post by **Alanhod** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:26 pm

I dito everyone else on the C-22, 1 collar holds it all. Looks like nice work to me.

Your motor mount is very nice. That is all new construction on the motor mount?

I'm betting there are quite a few C-26 owners out there that would like one of those new motor mounts. If I had a C-26 I would be asking you how much for that New motor mount? And If your making them can you extend it out about 6 inches to fit my big 4 stroke motor?

I'm just saying, WOW that looks nice!

Thanks
Alan

Bhacurly · Post by **Bhacurly** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:51 pm

Well,

I can see you don't have a lot of room to work... my C-22 has a SS Clevis pin through the collar, and a single bolt putting the squeeze on at the tiller head itself.

Lower down on the rudder shaft my collar sits on top of my teflon glide with a bolt through that also.

I really like that red over black color scheme also, very nice!

Untitled by bhacurly, on Flickr

Tommy Monaco · Post by **Tommy Monaco** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:58 am

Alright, so it sounds like there's not too much I can do with the space I've got to work with. But, on the bright side, it sounds like a non-issue so I'll just do some superficial fix that'll put my mind at ease.
On another note, I got it all bolted on and sealed in yesterday with better than expected results. 20+ bolts, 2 screws and a full big tube of 4200... I don't think it's going anywhere. There is still a little clean up around the edges, but all in all it's pretty much done.
https://picasaweb.google.com/shoemaker. ... 6274836146 The dry fit.
https://picasaweb.google.com/shoemaker. ... 9806603506 Hull sealing
https://picasaweb.google.com/shoemaker. ... 6427589410 4200 on the mount
https://picasaweb.google.com/shoemaker. ... 7279628082 Bolted on.
https://picasaweb.google.com/shoemaker. ... 4712495042 It works!
https://picasaweb.google.com/shoemaker. ... 1205031522 Perfect Fit! (with a little modification)

Tommy Monaco · Post by **Tommy Monaco** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:35 am

RedCanyon - I got a replacement 5/16 x 2'' bolt and locknut to provide the gripping force on the tiller assembly, around the rudder post. Other than that I was thinking about putting a short bolt through the back of the tiller assembly into the rudder post and securing it that way (right through the guide track on the rudder post if you have that). But, it would potentially interfere with the rudder lines at that point. But, if you're in the same boat (figuratively) as me, where I don't need to use the rudder lines (let's be honest, I can't really use the rudder lines effectively anymore after the repairs, there is just too much friction on the cheek) then interference becomes a much lower concern. Another option was that I would knot the red line (pull this one to kick the rudder up) with enough slack to still kick up, at the top of the rudder post with a big enough knot that it could not slip through and down the post thus creating some kind of stopper that'll at least hold onto your gear. I would leave enough slack in the kick up line just in case it does kiss the bottom (which is not at all uncommon here in the Chesapeake) so it can still deflect up instead of being locked and causing damage. Also, leaving the green (pull this one to straighten the rudder down) free so that if in any event the rudder does kick up you can attempt to pull it back straight. I think I've read on another thread that with a little assistance from a boat hook pushing down it can be done even with moderate tension from the rudder cheek.
Alanhod - It is all new construction. 1/4'' aluminum. There was no way in hell I was gonna get the red matched up, so I just went with white. That being said, I'm sure 6'' wouldn't be a problem, but I would suggest putting on some gussets on the corners then, just for strength... but then again, I usually overbuild. But, it might not be necessary. As you can see from the last link, my Yamaha 4-stroke fits in there when blocked appropriately (I have a buddy at Fleming who's gonna get me some spare teak for the block....mmmm Fleming). However, at that point you will have much more rudder/prop contention... in fact, the rudder will be into the prop at that point, instead of just annoyingly contacting the skeg or shaft. As noted earlier, I'm not too concerned about that, but I would if I was trailering or beaching often I would be.

RedCanyon · Post by **RedCanyon** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:05 am

@Tommy
I see you went with white. I went with black for the same reasons. lol Sprayed it with a couple of careful coats of "truck bed coating" which has held up very well, btw.

If you can overcome the cheek friction to be able to use your rudder up/down I see no reason why you could not use a thru-bolt as the lines have room to run one on each side of the bolt.

Bhacurly · Post by **Bhacurly** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:28 am

Red Canyon is correct in my situation, My through bolt does not add friction... The lines are small enough to slide by fairly easily...

FWIW