Worthy successors to C22 & C26, or even sturdier

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Windward
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Worthy successors to C22 & C26, or even sturdier

Post by Windward »

To avoid hijacking the mast step thread...
Suppose you were looking today to buy a new sailboat and were looking for a comparable model to a c26 or c22. Who even makes such a boat that is not crap?
I love my C26, but have found lots of shortcuts taken during construction -- major bulkheads not tabbed in, those under the sink and settees barely attached, a laughable hull/deck joint, major gaps between the 'glass and the plywood in parts of the cockpit, plywood in the bilge prone to rot, chainplates not properly anchored, etc -- so our boats aren't unassailable paragons of quality. They're still sailing after 30 years, though, and Windward's certainly stood up to everything I've done with her and come back giggling and panting for more.

There's General Boats and the Rhodes 22. I've seen a couple, never sailed one. They seem solidly built, probably more primary and possibly less secondary stability than the C-22.

The Catalina 22s I've seen seem sturdy enough. Etap? Beneteau?

Hmmm. Dunno for the 26. I'm not fond of the "Speed Racer" look of the Catalina, Hunter and Macgregor boats in the 26 foot range, and honestly don't know how sturdy they are. The Beneteau First 25.7 and 27.7 look interesting, but most seem to be in UK and Europe. Etaps are really nice, and are unsinkable, but again are mostly across the pond.

There's a broad gap between "not crap" and "sturdy enough to cross oceans." Even though I like fast, my own preference runs toward "built like a brick outhouse" rather than just "strong enough for intended purpose."

Problem in building 'em tough is that it's expensive, and most people seem to want the largest boat they can get for the money. The Flicka 22, Dana 24, Falmouth Cutter 22, Bristol Channel Cutter, Norsea 27 are all wildly solid boats that cost a bloody fortune. Not sure if any of them are actually being made now... I think the last prices I saw for new Dana 24 or Norsea 27 were about half again what a Catalina 309 costs. Guess which one the average coastal cruiser's likely to pick. And for most, rightly so: the 309 is plenty sturdy for coastal cruising and has lots more creature comfort than the Dana or Norsea.

Average sailor's likely to spend some weekends and 3-4 day stretches, and maybe one or two full weeks, on the boat, and will return it to its slip after that. I'll bet the folks doing long distance offshore stuff are either in the dough and can afford something large and sturdy and $$, racing and want something $$ and fast fast fast, retired and want more creature comfort than a 22-27 footer offers, or doing it on a shoestring and are buying used rather than new.
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EmergencyExit
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Post by EmergencyExit »

The only other group of owners I've found with the same love of their old boats as Chrysler owners are the owners of Cals esp the larger ones. And those have some production/aging issues as well.
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Windward
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Post by Windward »

The boats or the owners? :shock: :arrow:
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EmergencyExit
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Post by EmergencyExit »

lol, makes me think of a new term for the heftier of us sailors. "SCPB". "Self contained portable ballast".

The :oops: larger boats, Windward
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Jmckamey
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Post by Jmckamey »

A quick web search produces a East sail yachts New Moon 25 at $59,900.00 for the demo model. They call it a trailerable sea boat. Full keel and a displacement of 7,200 lbs. Buy a new $35,000 truck to pull it with and you'd be set up. They're out there but like you said..$$$$.
Mario G

Post by Mario G »

We looked at all kinds of different boats before getting the E-32 and anything newer looked like they were built cheap, The catalinas being the worse. Older boats like the Alberg's, Bristol's and our Endeavor have extremly thick hulls and built like tanks. That said Shaken knot Stirred is still on our tail and doing just as well as you could hope. I still think it was as much boat as we needed but like others I was out voted. :roll:
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Windward
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Post by Windward »

Does anyone know what our beasties cost new in 1977-1980? If a C-26 was about $15k, that would equate to about $49k in 2010 dollars. Helps put boat cost in perspective... I'd expect that a stronger boat would cost more today, particularly as there's less demand for boats in that size range.
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Post by hp18carr »

Mario

To be out voted for a bigger boat, must have been painful my condolences... such are the sacrifices we as men must make for the family. Keep a stiff upper lip and press on knowing the rest of us stand behind you. (LOL)

Terrence
Wilmington N.C.
Chrysler 26' 1980
Pandora (for now)
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lecker68
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Post by lecker68 »

The only other boat and it was the older models that were built tough was the Bristol and they also with age had chain plate issues. For myself when I retire I am going to have a bigger boat and am going to have to buy used unless I hit the lottery as the $$ are not in the picture> I am going to need features that I cannot out on the 26 and with 2 of us in close quarters could lead to problems. I am looking for something like 34 to 44 with shower and holding tank and fixed keel one I saw that a friend has is a Caliber 39.
Catch the wind and ride the wave, Have fun
Lyle
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Post by Chrysler20%26 »

Jeff, the C-20 was lift off your list. I would list it as No. 1 in the Chrysler line up. 20' with a 7' 11" beam, I wish Chrysler had kept that trend going. The C-26 with a 9 to 10 beam, would have been great.
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sauerleigh
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Post by sauerleigh »

I seem to recall paying something like $5000 for my new Ensenada 20 in 1974, with a trailer but no motor. A Cape Dory Typhoon was around 6k on a cradle and a Cat 22 was around 7k. Dockage for the season was $400 in 76, it is now $1600 at the same marina.
The Ensenada was an OK boat, good size cockpit, I especially liked the flat deck.
1978 Chrysler 26 "Maudie Kay"
1984 Catalina 25 "REDUX" (rebuild)
It's better late than never
Mario G

Post by Mario G »

Lyle the Excalibers are nice boats we have meet a couple with a 40', the problem we see with boats that size or bigger is most sit at docks and cannot be sailed single handed very easy. We went with our 32 so we could sail it more then just set at the docks and I or the 1st mate can handle it alone if the other is busy. We have shower 20+ gallon holding tank and 65 gallon water tank that has worked out great for us 2. The idea of getting an older boat for us was due to the fact that they seem to be built better then most of the cold plastic style you see in the new boats today unless you want to spend $200k or more. (Hey C. Scott the Beneteau's are the ony new boats with style I think are worth the money they ask.)

We also wanted the Kiss option. Older boats can be customized to your needs and not have all the gagets that will fail and useally at the wrong time. We we at an ancherage where a new power boats windless failed and the owners were lost in what to do. we meet a couple at a marina that there new furlo mast system had failed creating a VERY expensive repair bill. This after paying to have their boat hauled out again for a leaking new transducer. They had well over 5 times what we do in their newer boat when we sailed away.

I looked at Windward real well and what modifications Jeff made wouldn't hessitate is sailing it anywhere.

One of the things we have heard timr and time again since we started is "New isn't any better when it comes to boats" and bigger just means more can and will go wrong which means more money.

We have also meet alot of old salts like Jeff :lol: that do not want anything bigger then something like the C-26. go to WWW.sailfar.net and John and his Dr. wife live on a Alberg 30 and woouldn't want anyting different, then theres Charlie and laura that saild a 1961 Rhodes25 for a year from Texas to our home port of Oriental (our biggest insperation). Charlie was- has been a boat biulder for decades.
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Jmckamey
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Post by Jmckamey »

I ran across a price list on the web not long ago, as a matter of fact it was part of a link posted on this forum, subject was something about " reading for your free time"? It was a link to some old popular mechanics magazines. At any rate, the list had the base price of the boats being sold in what was then the emerging 22 foot range trailerable sailboat market. This list was dated around 1975 and had the Macgreggors (Ventures) , Catalinia's, South Coast , and such boats at around the $3000.00 mark. What I found interesting was the Chrysler 22 was twice the price at almost $6,000.00. At the time one could purchase a brand new car for the same money. Question, could one do the same today?
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lecker68
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Post by lecker68 »

Mario don't get me wrong I love my 26 but when we retire going to need more space and an E-32 would be in the running and I agree the older boats are built better. Mods will be made for our needs and for single handing.
Catch the wind and ride the wave, Have fun
Lyle
1980 C-26 #1100
S/V My Getaway
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Mario G

Post by Mario G »

Terrence by no means was being out voted for the E-32 a sacerfice, alot of the reason the C-26 was enough for me has to do with this group and its members that a bigger boat could never replace. From the get go I have thanked God and the great people here for all my sailing experiance and shall do so as long as the wind blows and the water flows.

I am a member of a few other groups on the net nd some with alot of old and very experianced salts, but none with ever repace what I get here.

Thanks to all that read this.
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astrorad
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Post by astrorad »

I saw the Rhodes 22 at the Chicago StrictlySail this past year. It looked very nice...The owners of the company were also very gracious...The whole package goes for around $56,000 I think. They have a very unique approach to their business.
Also check out this series of videos on Youtube....http://www.youtube.com/user/vega1860
The boat is an Albin Vega 27...they have their own users group and following.
Bill
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Post by mariner »

That vega sure does look nice! I never heard of them untill now. Thanks!
1976 - C22
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Post by tgentry »

Windward wrote:Does anyone know what our beasties cost new in 1977-1980? If a C-26 was about $15k, that would equate to about $49k in 2010 dollars. Helps put boat cost in perspective... I'd expect that a stronger boat would cost more today, particularly as there's less demand for boats in that size range.
Copacetic's previous owner just mailed me some papers he found when cleaning out files. (Thanks Dennis). Among them, the original 1979 price/order sheet. I don't have it in front of me, but base price was about $13.5k. Add pulpits and lifelines, galley, etc and you're easily pushing $15k, not including motor.

BTW, the Diesel option was over $4k. No wonder there aren't many of those around.
Tom
1981 Endeavour 43 s/v Pearl Lee
Former 1976 Columbia Payne 9.6 s/v Gin Rhumby
Former 1979 Chrysler 26, s/v Copacetic
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Dealer Prices 1977

Post by mariner »

Image

Image
1976 - C22
"AnneMarie"
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Post by EmergencyExit »

When you look at the CY-30 prototype, and the resulting TMI 30' you can see that had there been a few more years of production the answer to a successor for the Chrysler C22/26 might well have been a nice big Chrysler.....
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Post by Windward »

Mariner: Outstanding!!
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