Chrysler Sailors Forum

Hi All.
Great forum. I'm a novice sailing a waterlogged styrofoam Sunflower Snark at this time but I just acquired a '67? vintage Manowar. It's in decent shape but I have a few Questions If anyone can help;
1. The self bailing fitting in the floor near the daggerboard trunk is missing. Can I glass that over?
2. There is a hole on the transom between the hull ID plate and the rudder. Does that just remain open? is there a fitting there also?
3. The flotation has broken down in the bow. Should that whole area filled with foam or is it a storage area also?
4. I assume the rear of the boat is filled with foam? Should I open that area and replace that also?
5. I see there is a parts section on this forum but i'll throw this out here anyway. I need a; mast, boom, sail, rudder and daggerboard for this boat. Any ideas where I can get this stuff.

Thanks in Advance

Welcome aboard ! Leeway here on the board sails a manowar, I think, might drop a PM that way if you don't get a response here.

Beau

Hi Joe, and welcome aboard!

As Beau acknowledged, I also have a 1960-70's Man-o-war. I will try to answer your questions as best I can.

1) My self bailer was broken when I got the boat and I removed it completely and closed up the whole. I used marine putty, but if you are good with glass then by all means go right ahead. From what I heard, the self-bailer didn't work well anyway. I just bring with me an empty 1 gal jug with the bottom cut out as a bailer.

2) The only hole in the transom should be the drain hole, but that is located at the base of the transom below the rudder gudgeon and just starboard of center. Can you upload a picture of this hole so I can be of more help there?

3) I too have deteriorated flotation foam (or I should say I used to). From what I have found out it was only located down the sides of the hull. The aft and forward compartments were void. What you are probably seeing is the bits and pieces brought up to the front of the boat from the water brought in after being tipped. I have completely removed this old foam and plan to add the bouancy back using the foam noodles kids use in swimming pools. I researched the slow-rising spray in foam and found that it is just too expensive.

4) Only the sides need the foam, but the old stuff probably found it's way back there. I had to open up the back anyway to remount the rudder gudgeon, but if you don't need to do it, I would just leave it alone. btw, I just cut a round hole and finished it with a 6" round deck plate.

5) I hope you didn't pay much for the hull since you are lacking all the items required to sail it! Seriously, I'm not sure you will find any of the items you are looking for other than a sail. You could try craigslist or ebay, but I realy doubt you will find anything.

Lee

gizmoJoe wrote:Hi All.
Great forum. I'm a novice sailing a waterlogged styrofoam Sunflower Snark at this time but I just acquired a '67? vintage Manowar. It's in decent shape but I have a few Questions If anyone can help;
1. The self bailing fitting in the floor near the daggerboard trunk is missing. Can I glass that over?
2. There is a hole on the transom between the hull ID plate and the rudder. Does that just remain open? is there a fitting there also?
3. The flotation has broken down in the bow. Should that whole area filled with foam or is it a storage area also?
4. I assume the rear of the boat is filled with foam? Should I open that area and replace that also?
5. I see there is a parts section on this forum but i'll throw this out here anyway. I need a; mast, boom, sail, rudder and daggerboard for this boat. Any ideas where I can get this stuff.

Thanks in Advance

Joe,

The only items I have been able to find on the net are at the sister site to this forum at http://chryslersailing.lizards.net/sail ... tsale.html

Here is the listing. Note sure if they guys still has the boat/parts.

Parts for a C-15 Man-O-War

Year: 1961
Location: SE Michigan
Features: Parts for a 1961 Man-O-War: 1961 Hull, Mast and boom in good condition.
Price: Take all for $50.
Contact: Marc Muller
Phone: 248-797-7106
E-mail: marc.muller(at)gedas(dot)com
Posted: Oct 20, 2004


Good Luck!

Lee

Hey Lee,
Thanks for the info. I actually got the hull for free, So I'm gonna fabricate the rudder and daggerboard and I have a rig for a laser that I think is smaller but should be ok to get on the water. This Manowar kind of looks like a Sunfish on steriods doesn't it? I like the noodle idea for flotation. The hole in the transom is where you described, does that have a cap or something or it just stays open? Thanks for the help I'll keep you posted on my progress.


Joe

Joe,

The hole in the transom is the drain hole. This absolutely needs to be plugged when sailing or you will swamp the boat. They sell plugs at West Marine or most marine stores. Make sure you get the right size, I think it is 1/2". I got the one at the following link.

I have my boat put away for the winter or I would send you pictures of the rudder, tiller and daggerboard. The daggerboard shouldn't be too difficult to fabricate, but the rudder is more complicated.

There are some manuals and specs at http://chryslersailing.lizards.net/manowar.html and one has an OK drawing of the rudder assembly.

The rigging for the man-o-war is very similar to a Laser, in fact the boats are very similar and it would be nice if they could sail the same class since there are no sanctioned man-o-war races any longer. The diameter of the mast is your main concern, but if the laser mast is narrower you could probably fit a piece of PVC pipe of the appropriate size in the mast stepping.

Good Luck.[/url]

Thanks for the info Lee, I'm gonna get everything together over the winter and hit the water asap in the spring. I'll keep you posted.

Joe

Good Luck, Joe!

Let me know if you need any other advice. I'm going to continue work in the spring when it gets warmer. Too cold up hear in Wisconsin in the winter and I do not have a heated garage.

I think I might put deckplates in the bow where the portals in the cockpit are located. The black rims around the holes are already broken and the glass needs repair anyway. I can then close them up when underway so water can't get in so easily if capsized. It will also help while in storage so the rodents don't get in and make a home. I have the spars stored through the portals right now, but plan to store them in my garage next year instead of with the boat.

Lee

Hey Lee,
With the warm weather up here in the northeast I started working on the manowar again. I have a couple more questions for you; How did you remove all the old flotation? I reached my arm in the holes up front and feel its hollow in there but couldn't get in that far. I wonder if anyone has drilled the rivets out of the steel strip between the hull and deck and split the boat apart? I like your idea of enlarging the 2 holes in the cockpit front. There is a bit of usable space up there and I can't see ramming noodles or soda bottles in there and around the corner with much success.


Joe

Hi Joe,

Well, like I said in an earlier post I installed a deck plate at the stern about halfway between the cockpit and transom. I vacuumed out as much of the old foam as I could from this deck opening as well as from the front. Got most of the foam out of the side by adding extensions to the shop vac. Careful, you can lose one of the extensions in there if you are too rough.

I'm probably going to remove the rest of the foam by tipping the boat back and using the garden hose to flush it toward the back.

I wouldn't mess with removing the whole deck if I were you. Any extra foam isn't going to hurt anything.

The foam noodles will be easy to insert through the back deck plate opening. They also have enough bend that you should be able to insert them through the front portals.

Thanks Lee,
I'm gonna have to go the deckplate route also as the gudgeons are coming loose on my Manowar. I'll try to get some photos up soon.


Joe

I really need to get my pics uploaded on the Deck plate installation and gudgeon remount so you have a guide.

Joe,

Last night I was going through the photos I took of my gudgeon repair/deck plate install and found that I'm missing all the photos after siliconing the gudeon on before bolting it in place. So, I have nothing to show the bolts & nuts used or the deck plate installation. Probably not a big deal though as I have all the pictures of cutting out the hole, filling the old bolt holes and drilling the new ones. I know I used 1/4 stainless hex nuts, but don't remember the length. The Gudgeon holes are smaller than 1/4 inch, so I had to drill them out. I prefer the hex bolt to a philips head due to stripping.

Look for an update to the Man-o-War Gudgeon Repair thread in the coming days.

Lee

Lee and all Chrysler fans,

The Laser rig didn't happen so after much late night internet surfing this is what I came up with. The lateen rig is the same size as the original manowar (85 sqft.) I followed some threads on the woodenboat forum and built the mast ,yard and boom out of doug fir. I won a giant sail on ebay for 20 bucks and cut and sewed it on an old Kenmore sewing machine. Got enough dacron left over for 5 more boats. The sail is just temporarily held on with zip ties, rope etc. My only mistake was hanging it on the mast and then trying to step the mast. I nearly capsized her right in my driveway! The rig looks ok to me, Does anyone have any input, concerns etc about this setup?


Joe

Nice setup Joe. I think that will do fine. It doesn't look like you added the boom rigging ye, huh?

It now looks like a cross between a laser and a sunfish. A sunfish on steroids if you will!

How are you doing with fabricating the center board, rudder, and tiller?

Lee

I found a nice piece of stainless steel about 1x4 feet which i think will work well for the daggerboard after a little trimming. As for the rudder and tiller after hours of cutting and planing the mast and spars i find im enjoying the woodwork, so i think i will fabricate them out of wood. As for the boom rigging i think im gonna run a sheet from a traveler on the stern to a block on the end of the boom running up to a block at midboom down to the block camcleat arrangement on the back of the daggerboard. How is yours rigged?

Joe

Careful with a traveler at the stern, you may restrict your ability to navigate and cross the boat on a tack.

All my rigging is at the center of the boom above the centerboard. Because I do not have the original swivel block and jammer as shown in the diagram, I have a line attached between two holes in support brackets on each side of the centerboard opening. There is a block in the middle of that line which then extends above the centerboard.

I have a small cleat at the end of one side support that the sheet line goes through, then it goes up to the boom through one of two small blocks attached to the boom (very similar to the Man-o-War diagram above), then down through the block on the support line, then up to the second boom block, then down through a larger swivel block with cam cleat.

So, it is very much like the original design and allows for a crewmate to cross over in front of the centerboard and enough room in the aft for the skipper to crossover.

I have the original tiller and rudder, but added a tiller extension so I can maintain steering while hiking out.

When you make your rudder, make sure it can swivel up, so you can beach the boat.

I do not beleive the centerboard on mine is original as it is missing any sign that there was a stepping wedge attached. I would like to add one to make it easier to sail in shallow water.

Wish I had pictures to show you right now.

You say you are from the Northeast and I see there is snow on the ground. What state do you hail from?

Live on NY, NJ, PA border near the Delaware river. The boom on the lateen rig is about 13'-8" long so I had to make it thinner due to weight restrictions. From what I gleaned off the 'net in order to keep spars from excessive bending it would be better to have sheet run as described. I think If the block was just above daggerboard the end of the boom would bend, spilling wind, even break maybe. Right now, I can't afford the alum. mast etc. and I am familiar with the lateen setup ( only type I've sailed) and Like we discussed she does look like a big Sunfish! Is there any iceboating action by you? I found some info on the 'net and that looks like fantastic. I do alot of ice fishing, what better way to check your tip-ups then with an iceboat?


Joe

Enuf said. Do what will work for you.

I have seen ice boats in the past on the larger lake in my area (Pewaukee Lake), but this year is not so good for the sport with all the snow we got this year. So far I think it is in the top 10 for snowiest winters in WI. Under the base of snow is about 2" of slush before you hit solid ice.

Good luck on the rest of the project.

Joe,

How's your boat shaping up?

I plan to get mine out of storage at my brother's house this weekend.

Need to make some minor repairs before the season starts.

Lee

Hey Lee,
I'm just about ready. The booms and mast are sanded and varnished. I attached the sail to the booms with rope grommets, I just have to figure out where i'm gonna permanently attach the blocks on the boom for the mainsheet. I did as you suggested and made a kickup rudder. upon further investigation I discovered my daggerboard trunk was completely rotted so I swatted It off with a sledgehammer. i made a new one with plywood and epoxy but I still have to mount it up. Do you find in sailing yours that your feet spend alot of time up near the daggerboard trunk? Id like to overbuild the braces in that area if possible as it seems to be a weak spot. I'll post some photos when i get a chance.


Joe

Great to hear you are almost ready.

My boat had some cracks around the trunk as well, but not rotted like yours. The previous owner just patched it up with glass.

When you are sailing solo you will probably be in contact with trunk from time to time if you need to balance the load, but not when you have passengers. I tend to sit back further when I have a passenger that can hike out. However, if you're building out bracing fore and aft then you might be kicking the braces from time to time during tacking. You also have to consider passengers. They don't have much space to change sides as it is.

Maybe consider dual bracing on each port and starboard instead. The single support on each side probably isn't adequate, especially if you sail often in shallow water like me. I have hit a number of hidden rocks and am afraid the trunk is going to snap off one of these times.

Still didn't get my boat from my brother's house, but this weekend is looking good to get it.

Lee

Got my boat from the bro's Saturday. The tarp had subdued to some strong winds the last few weeks and the cockit was filled with water . He said it made it all through the winter with no problems until this spring.

Anyway, we bailed most of the water out of it and then I hauled it back to my place. I drained the rest of the water from the cockit with a siphon hose and then checked for any damages (or critters). Nothing major and no critters, but more of the old flotation foam made its way from the sides. I cleaned out what I could with the shop vac and called it a day.

Sunday I propped the tung of the trailer up on a saw horse and hosed out the bow and sides down toward the aft. I wanted to get as much of the old foam out of the boat. It always comes out when I lay the boat down and I don't want that crap in the lake.

I think I got it all out now. As a flotation substitute I plan to use foam pool noodles for that. I will hit Walmart to check prices in the coming days/weeks. I found a few places that sell them bulk online and might go that route. I don't know if this is an absolute necessity, because I can get the boat up fairly quckly if I lay her down, but when the kids start sailing her solo I want the piece of mind of knowing it will not sink if swamped.

Before that, however, I plan to replace the bow cockpit portals. The rivets have come way on the plastic molding. Not a good design. There wasn't much room for the rivet holes and most have broken away from the thin edge of fiberglass. I will pull out the old plastic moldings, repair the glass, and replace with deck plates. This should also help keep the boat more boyant when tipped over.