C-20 Facts vs. Opinion

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OutnBacker
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Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:56 pm
Location: Everett, WA.

C-20 Facts vs. Opinion

Post by OutnBacker »

So today I'm heading out in a little while to look at and 99% probable, to buy a C-20. The few trade reviews out there, as well as the few anecdotal owner's reviews indicate a very solid boat with excellent design pedigree. We all know that about the Chryslers.

However, there are alot of statements regarding ballast/weight ratio on the C-20 that I would like to get some bottom line (no pun intended) facts regarding.

Basically, I'm finding two stated specs for ballast/weight:

(1) 2200lbs boat weight + 410lb swing keel = 19% which is too low to be accurate IMO

(2) 2200lbs displacement + 400lb shoal keel + 410lb swing keel = 37% which is killer good - almost too high to be believed for a swing keel boat.

As a comparison, the C-22 is only 24% but extremely stable due to other excellent design features.

So, which is it? And, what exactly is the difference between dry weight and displacement - if any?
EDIT: I got the picture on displace vs dry. The question on accurate ballast loading stands.Your thoughts, gentlemen...
windnutlarry
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C20 Ballast

Post by windnutlarry »

If you look it up on Sailboatdata.com you will see that it has a stub keel that contains the ballast, leaving a relatively light swing keel. I looked at them before settling on the C22 due to cabin size, and I thought the swing keel weighed less than 100lbs. I had a Hunter22 with 1300lbs of lead ingots under the cabin sole and a keel like that, but the C20 setup is better IMO. The ballast under the sole does not get it low enough, so it rolls a lot. Crossing powerboat wakes was always an adventure. I'm pretty sure all the ballast is in the stub keel on the C20. Good Luck.
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OutnBacker
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Post by OutnBacker »

Here again, unless I am reading it wrong, there is this discrepency.
This PDF from the factory site seems to say that the shoal keel is 400lbs and the swing keel is 410lbs. Does this mean all together 810Lbs? The wording can be misunderstood. Are they talking about the same boat or some optional keel arrangement. There is no mention of a fixed shoal draft keel option that I am aware of.

http://www.msogphotosite.com/MSOG/pdfpa ... marine.pdf

Sailboatdata says yes. The boat has a 37% ballast to weight ratio, which explains it's reputation for stability. If the shoal keel is only 400lbs, with only a light swing keel, the ratio of only 18% would be almost dangerous for such a tall rig, with the heavy hull with freeboard being so high off the water. I would assume that Sailboatdata took their info from the factory specs.

yet, there are examples of Chrysler sales brochures that advertise the C-20 as having 410lbs of ballast, with no mention of additional material in any keel housing at all. Go figure.

Has anyone actually seen the swing keel on their C-20? Judging by the sheer size and area of the shoal keel housing, it must be at least 400lbs if it is cast iron.

I just want some hard facts.
cjreardon
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Location: Central Ohio

Post by cjreardon »

The keel weight is about right. The 20 has a stub keel on it also which the 22 does not have. I think the stub keel lets you go with a lighter drop keel. The 20 also has different handling characteristics than the 22. The 22 will tack faster. I sail them both on an inland reservoir, and I have found in light wind that the 20 does not tack well with the jib up. In light wind I sail the 20 like it is a catamaran rig. The 20 is not as fast as the 22 and it does not heel as much. It is a pleasant boat to sail on, especially with a few people. Remember if the boat heaves to in light wind and you are getting near the trees, drop the jib and she will respond.
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OutnBacker
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Post by OutnBacker »

"The keel weight is about right"

But which keel weight? There are sales and data verbage to the effect that the ballast is both 410lbs and 810lbs. And, there are also specs that seem to indicate that the 810lbs is divided between the keel pod and the swing keel. But which is right? If 810lbs, then the 20 has about 37% ratio and will certainly not heel as much as the 22 as you say. But, if it has only 410lbs in the shoal draft keel housing, then it has only about 18% ratio and would be a very scary ride in many conditions, and might have by now been branded a poor choice. But no one seems to indicate that degree of tenderness.

Since everyone seems to agree that the 20 is a well mannered boat in most respects (excluding the slow speed tacking issue), I find it hard to think it has only the 410lbs in that smallish protrusion alone.

Unfortunately, the trailer I have has a home made plywood platform upon which the keel pod rests, thus blocking my ability to get under and actually look at the keel in the slot. But if it is approx 3ft long and 1 to 1-1/2 inches wide, it could certainly be 400lbs. If that should be true, then the known ballast in the pod, plus the swing keel at 400lbs, places the 20 in a ratio that many open ocean cruisers enjoy.

Any other thoughts on this?

EDIT: Short, fat boats tend to stall when tacking in light air, that's true. It can be irritating. I try to anticipate as best I can, also putting up the biggest jib to gain way on those calmer days, but sometimes it just doesn't work. I've actually gotten by with just slacking the jib til the bow comes thru, thus making the main do the work, as you say. And then sometimes I just plain suck.
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OutnBacker
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Post by OutnBacker »

THE FINAL WORD on this issue can be found in my thread "C-20 On The Sling, Keel Down - Pics"
Current: '75 Montgomery 17 #65
Current: '78 Chrysler 20
Past: '78 Chrysler 22
'98 Bauer 12 - gaff rig
'78 Orion Malibu 18
Forever: '83 Grumman 17, gunter rigged with jib and trimaran outriggers.
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