Can a C-22 be knocked down?

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KeithR

Can a C-22 be knocked down?

Post by KeithR »

Well, I now have an answer to that question. :shock:

Let me set the scene for the tale. Mother's Day morning, left the slip at 8:45 am, heading south across the lake for a training cruise for wife and son. Winds out of the east (shifting to the southeast), 10 - 15 kts, with a forecast of 24 kt gusts later in the day. Original main, un-reefed, although I do have the ability to take in a single reef, original 110% jib up, but haven't gotten a roller furler yet. Boom vang set for heavy winds. Keel fully extended on a close reach/close hauled due to shifting winds.

Wife had the helm, GPS indicating 5 - 7 mph. During the sail to the south end of the lake the winds kept shifting and increasing in strength. When we got to the south end of the lake and prepared to come about, I told my wife I'd take over because I was starting to worry about the increaing winds.

The return trip north was mostly uneventful except a Hunter 26 changed course and forced us up into a cove on the lake. As a result, I was forced to gybe the boat to get back to the main body of the lake. As I re-entered the main part of the lake I headed south on the lake again on a port tack, once again on a close reach with the main sheet and jib both cleated down, although several times I took control of the main sheet and sailed the Lucky like I would a sunfish, using the position of the main to minimize the heel of the boat, i.e. a dynamic reef. By the GPS we actually hit 8+ mph a couple of times and life was good. At this point I told the crew "ready about" and when they were ready, I put the tiller over and began the tack. As the boat passed the eye of the wind, and I was steadying her up on the new tack.... the wind shifted, and as Murphy would have it, gusted to at least 30 kts, taking the boat on the beam.

Life got interesting pretty quick and I wasn't too worried until the heel went past 45 degrees and Lucky didn't show a sign of righting. Meanwhile back at the ranch.. the wind gusted even higher and we continued the heel. At about 80 degrees of heel (inclinometer only goes to 60 degrees) but the mast was pretty much horizontal, I kicked the tiller over and released the main sheet just as water washed over the cockpit combing and into the cockpit.

Lucky headed up into the wind and snapped back to a more normal heel and not a darn thing broke or tore. We set the sails again and sailed for about another 1/2 hour using dynamic reefing without incident before deciding the winds were just getting too much to handle and headed for the house.

So, yes, you can knock a C-22 down if the winds are strong enough and you are stupid or you just want to wash the lee portlights. However, the C-22 is a tank with sails and like a Timex, takes a licking and keeps on ticking!

Back to the lake tomorrow! :D
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Alanhod
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Post by Alanhod »

Most excellent sailing report. A first had report of a knockdown with no I'll effect other then the probable need for new underwear. Well I would need fresh underwear anyway. Thank you for first hand confirming the resilience of our boats.

I like the "Takes a Licking and Keeps on Ticking"

Thanks
Alan
It's a good life on the
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Mario G

Post by Mario G »

Had the C-22 over far enough to wash the windows but never got crazy wind that dipped the mast head, the C-26 did get knocked over during a gail storm and seem to fair far better then we did :oops:.
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John K
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Post by John K »

Sounds like a heck of a day! :shock:

I've washed the portlights a few times, even while reefed, but nothing quite that crazy.

That reminds me of something: I've heard two schools of thought, and I've tried both, regarding the use of the mainsheet traveler in heavy winds. Many folks push it to leeward in an effort to minimize heel. But others push it to windward so when it is sheeted out a little, the top of the sail spills. I seem to have enjoyed the successes of the latter lately. Any thoughts on this?

Also, in heavier weather, I've been wrapping the jib sheet around the leeward winch, across the sliding hatch, around the windward winch (no wrap, and cleating it on the windward side so I can get to it without going to the leeward side of the cockpit. I lke the security of it. Anyone else do this? :roll:
1977 C22: Dog House
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hp18carr
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Post by hp18carr »

It sounds like to me that the Chrysler sailboats may at times get knocked down... but never out. 8)

Terrence
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Chrysler 26' 1980
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EmergencyExit
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Post by EmergencyExit »

They take a knockin' and keep on rockin'
8)
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John K
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Post by John K »

"Adriaaaaan! Adriaaaaan!"

"I love you Rocky!"

:)
1977 C22: Dog House
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CaptainScott
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Post by CaptainScott »

Great story!

Maybe our boats are part Weeble?

Scott
KeithR

Post by KeithR »

John K wrote:Sounds like a heck of a day! :shock:

I've washed the portlights a few times, even while reefed, but nothing quite that crazy.

That reminds me of something: I've heard two schools of thought, and I've tried both, regarding the use of the mainsheet traveler in heavy winds. Many folks push it to leeward in an effort to minimize heel. But others push it to windward so when it is sheeted out a little, the top of the sail spills. I seem to have enjoyed the successes of the latter lately. Any thoughts on this?

Also, in heavier weather, I've been wrapping the jib sheet around the leeward winch, across the sliding hatch, around the windward winch (no wrap, and cleating it on the windward side so I can get to it without going to the leeward side of the cockpit. I lke the security of it. Anyone else do this? :roll:
John, just wondering, but do you sail with a boom vang? Seems to me the vang accomplishes the same thing by flatting the main out, thus removing some of the lift that would otherwise heel the boat.

I like your idea on the jib sheet. Our problem was compounded a bit when the jib sheet got hung up on the winch during the tack after my son released it. He had already moved to the otherside of the boat and the heel prevented him from getting to it very easily.
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EmergencyExit
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Post by EmergencyExit »

John I cross sheet the Cal 21 like that in any decent air..I've had it heeled over enough that I really wouldn't want to go "down there" after that sheet. Never done it on EE tho,
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Post by lecker68 »

I have never had the 26 past 45 degrees but I had the Newport at 90 the mast was even with the water and I was standing on the keel.
Catch the wind and ride the wave, Have fun
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Post by Bhacurly »

We've been good,

Didn't get knocked over in the last couple years...

But there was a time when we took water into the cabin area 3 times in one month! :shock:

Pretty similiar conditions described above too,,, gusty, variable winds with too much sail up, and usually on a reach. Gybing in those conditions can be really tricky, I usually watch the water and plan doing it during a lull, and not waiting 'till you run outta lake, plan ahead!

John K we use that method to stay on the high side, takes a lil getting used to but works well for us.

Keeping the main sail flat in those winds is key also, sumthing hard to do in an original sail that will be stretched out and fuller than it should be,,, so reef early! We would let the travellor to the leeward side and keep the boomvang tight. Having a downhaul on the foresail is really nice to get that sail down quick w/o having to go to the foredeck while the first mate sails in those tricky winds :wink:

That being said, practice makes,, well improves performance anyhow! After the 3rd time Pam was more comfortable we would survive, and other than getting a lil wet wasn't a big deal,,, unless of course you broke stuff and can't drop the main, stalled the boat and now have no steerage, have to get the motor down and started, sails are flapping like crazy and keeping the list at 30 degrees, you watch another batten sail away and sink,,, you look around and all the other sail boats have dropped all sail and are heading to port...

ahhh yes,, fond memories
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Post by lecker68 »

Reefing I strongly believe when you think you should reef you should have already done it.
Catch the wind and ride the wave, Have fun
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Post by Windward »

Windward's had her winches submerged several times. Never shipped water in the cockpit, because the bottom board's pinned in whenever we're underway, and if it's at all questionable the second and sometimes top board is also in place, with the companionway hatch securely latched.

Most pulse-quickening pasting we ever got was in 2009, on that way back to Beaufort Inlet after mucking about in some big waves. Bit of a cross-posted excerpt from another site:

Saturday we went to play in the SCA-induced waves in Onslow Bay. 3-5 ft became 4-5 ft, which gave way to 5-6 with some honest 8s and a rare few larger offerings thrown in. None were breaking, except for the whitecaps on the tippy-top, but they were pretty steep, and we often lost the horizon in the troughs. We were fairly well prepared, with washboards pinned in, companionway hatch latched, reefed main, small jib, gear stowed, foulies, PFDs, harnesses, tethers, jacklines, position/course/speed noted every 30 min. In general Windward acquitted herself well, although because the winds were lighter than forecast and the waves were larger, we sometimes had issues staying powered up.

With the lighter-than-planned winds, we were considering a spinnaker run back to the inlet (we have begun referring to the spinnaker turtle as "the big bag of stupid"), but since we saw rain approaching decided to hold off and try surfing with what we had up. We also elected to leave the 1st reef in just in case, even though we were still underpowered.

Rain started and stopped a few times without incident, but then we got slammed hard by a squall with some serious breeze whilst surfing back toward the inlet. Some extremely visceral moments ensued as the boom submerged and water poured over the lee rail into the cockpit. I've washed the windows and submerged a winch before when belted by serious winter gusts on Watauga Lake, but that didn't involve significant waves; because we were on the face of a largish wave at the time, we were laid over pretty darn far (for reference, 60 degrees on Windward isn't pretty darn far), probably closer to horizontal than we've ever been.

On Windward, low initial stability makes for high secondary stability. We returned fairly quickly to more or less vertical, but had lost momentum and were still on a wave face so remained broadside and got shoved over repeatedly. While counter-intuitive, what finally got us back up under control was sheeting in the main harder, which pivoted us more to the wind, then feathering the jib until we could get some way up. Once moving we furled the jib about 1/2 way (needed to leave enough sail for power).

The massive winds abated within 5 minutes, leaving some stout but manageable breeze. We unfurled more to stay powered up and made it the last 4 miles back to the inlet with lots more intermittent rain but no adrenaline moments.
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