Chrysler Sailors Forum

Scott & I ran into one of those, "I know you thought you understood what you thought you heard me say, but I'm not sure that what I said was the same thing you thought you heard." The result was that we missed a couple posting of weekly questions. We're getting back on track and Scott promises that he has a great question coming for you.

November 10, 1777 at Tun's Tavern in Philadelphia the U. S. Marine Corps was established. To this day every Nov 10th Marines cerebrate the Birthday of the Marine Corps. Three days later another corps was established in that same tavern. Anyone know what it is?


Question for the week:

There are some basic knots every mariner should know. I've included a couple along with a guess as to the knots purpose. I know, some of you salty seadogs do seven strand turks heads with your eyes shut, but what do you feel are the basics everyone should know?

1. Square knot

2. Rolling Hitch

3. Boline

4. Two half hitches



a. Forms an eye that will not collapse. A good knot for rescue work.

b. Joins 2 lines toghther with the strain parallel to the lines. Must be tied right or it won't hold!

c. Fastens to a stantion or rail with the strain perpendicular to the stantion or rail. This is considered a permanent knot.

d. A quick way to fasten a line to a rail or stantion to hold temporarily where the strain is perpendicular to the rail or stantion.


I also really like the timber hitch and the prussik knot.

1(square knot)=b

2(Rolling Hitch)=d, although I usually use it if the strain is parallel to the stanchion/rail. A minor variation is the taught line hitch.

3(bowline)=a . I often secure the tail

4(Two half hitches)=c. I may add a round turn. A slight variation on that combination is the anchor bend.


I too use the prussic a fair bit. Windward has steps on the mast so I can climb rather than getting hoisted, but for safety I use a swiss seat and prussic knot on a secured halyard. This is secure enough that I can let go and sit in the swiss seat, although since it's just 1" webbing it's not particularly comfortable. The icicle hitch is even better, but I always seem to forget it unless I use it a lot.

I frequently use the cleat hitch (an often mis-tied knot), two clove hitches, the trucker's hitch, the fisherman's knot and sometimes a water knot.

I use the figure eight as a stopper knot, sometimes making it bulkier by taking an extra turn and then looping the tail into a bight before pulling it through; that way it is much too bulky to jam in the turning block, but easy to untie by pulling the tail.

I less often use the sheet bend or double sheet bend (if you look at it, it's essentially the same knot as a bowline, but for a different purpose), the butterfly, the tugboat hitch and the buntline hitch. I use the buntline infrequently enough that I usually have to think about it as I tie it.

I have used a carrick bend several times in real life, although it's a bit esoteric and I could have just used a double sheet bend instead.

As long as we're talking marlinspike seamanship....

Whipping a line is hugely useful, but since most synthetic lines melt pretty well I often get lazy and just fuse the ends instead. Besides keeping the end of a line tight and intact, it can also be used to secure the tail of a bowline, buntline hitch or carrick bend, to ensure an anchor rode cannot pop out of its thimble, and at the throat of an eye splice.

I use shear lashing from time to time and, less often, square and diagonal lashing.

For three strand line, it's fairly quick for me to do an eye splice. If I need a strong, permanent loop I'll usually eye splice it rather than use a bowline. I'll sometimes end-to-end spliced shorter lines into a longer anchor rode; it does cost some strength, but less so than a knot.

I find splicing double braid a pain, always need to use the booklet, and have given up on splicing used double braid because it's too difficult to milk it back into the cover. My cheat there is to use the sheet winches and a rolling hitch to help it along.

Hmmm. Guess I'm chatty today

Great post Jeff!

For cutting/fusing synthetic rope I got one of these at the Strictly Sail show last year.

http://www.diy-boat.com/solution-center ... -x-cutter/

It works great as long you sheild it from the wind a bit. It does seem to go through some butane though.

I have recently heard that this one is more wind proof and better for soldering, though a lot more expensive.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=372-170

I concur with Winward (Jeff) on the knots. Great post Jeff thanks!

Now what corps was created on November 13 1777? Okay I cheated and looked in Wikipedia. And it says the Continental Congress created the Marine Corps on December 12, 1775 and legend in the United States Marine Corps today places its first recruiting post at Tun Tavern.

It also says "The United States Marine Corps still celebrates 10 November, as its official birthday Borrowing from the Royal Navy, the practices and printed instructions were outlined in the "Rules for the Regulations of the Navy of the United Colonies."

But I still can't find who the 2nd corps was that started on November 13, 1777. Oooo I can't wait for the answer to that one as I can't find it yet.

Thanks
Alan

Family lore says a long ago ancestor of ours was an American Privateer with letters of mark on British Navy and shipping, granted by the Continental Congresses during the War of Independence and the War of 1812.

I will take a stab at this one
1 = B
2 = D
3 = A
4 = C
I could be wrong and that is why I like this forum because you can learn without ridicule and everyone learns something.

I think this knot is one we all should know
The get a way knot
A temporary knot that allows you to release your boat from the dock pillion while you are in your boat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe1-jFcCg2c

Everyone got the knots correct, and as I stated these are the very basic knots. We were taught that a knot has 3 characteristics: 1) Easy to tie, 2) Holds securly, 3) Easy to untie. These all fit those criteria.

Jeff, I'd be interested to have you post a favorite book or source on marlinspike seamanship. I have my Navy & Coast Guard Blue Jacket's Manuals plus a book On Rope. It's more for technical rope usage because of where I work (www.ropeandrescue.com).

As for the stopper knot. This often creates anxiety for new sailors who decide for the first time to bring her in under sail, make a great and final turn into the wind and end up at the dock. The problem is that we don't know if it will stopper knot! (sorry, I'm known for really bad puns)

As for the second corps founded at Tun's Tavern - three days after the establishment of the Maring Corps the same group gathered and began the U. S. Navy Chaplain Corps... someone had to get the marines out of that bar! This one was for you, leatherneck!

Paul,

Most excellent question of the week and the trivia bonus question was equally fun.

Thanks
Alan

Chapman's and John Rousmaniere's Annapolis Book of Seamanship are both good. I use the New England Ropes instructions for double braid splicing. A couple of years ago I picked up Des Pawson's Handbook of Knots, which contains more knots than I knew existed. It's probably the best single source reference that I've found.

Some knots and techniques I learned from others. My grandpa taught me a proper cleat hitch, clove hitch, half hitches, bowline, square knot, sheet bend and sheepshank. He also taught me to eye splice and to do short and long splices. Haven't done a long splice in years, and should probably go back and relearn it. I learned an alternate, idiot-resistant way to tie a bowline and a butterfly, plus the water knot, from a Swiss climbing guide in British Columbia. The trucker's hitch I learned when I was a raft guide. Learned to whip lines in scouts.


For online stuff, http://www.animatedknots.com/ is a decent guide. http://www.realknots.com/knots/ is also pretty cool.

Interesting test of breaking strength vs type of knot at
http://www.caves.org/section/vertical/n ... trope.html

Thanks, Alan. I used to do a lot of eye and short splices and thought they were really fun. The thing is, I rarely am around any three strand line anymore.

A big deal with technical rope work is to know proper knot techinc. A knot tied wrongly can shave 50% off the working strentgh of the line. A lot of us use kern mantle line and rope. Be aware the strength is in the kearn on the inside of the line. If the outer sheath (the mantel) is worn away or removed a very slight cut will sever the line. The more stress on it at the time, the more dramatic the failure.