C-20 First Launch - After Action Report

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OutnBacker
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C-20 First Launch - After Action Report

Post by OutnBacker »

It's a keeper.

No leaks. Motor runs good and the boat seems stiff and stable - even though the winds were only in the 10mph range. I can tell why it was advertised as a family friendly boat. There was a two ft chop despite the mild wind because of the long, open fetch coming down the slot.

The boat felt heavy - meaning sure footed - but responsive to the slightest tiller correction and tacked beautifully. The keel did not thump when porpoising over large wakes nor did it thump inside the keelhead trunk when tacking - which I did very quickly to listen for a loose keel pin.

One thing that I come away with is the thought that there must be more ballast than just the 400lbs in the keel pod. I've sailed boats like that, and they don'y have this stiffness on a reach. A ballast load of only 400lbs, carried up high in a shoal draft keel pod would have heeled considerably more than this one did at 7 degrees.

I'm now pretty sure that the load is 810lbs as described in various write-ups: 400 in the pod and another 410 in the cast iron swing keel.

So, it's moored for the weekend at the Guest Dock and I'll be sailing tomorrow and sunday. Here's a YouTube vid out on Port Gardner Bay. I know, it's just another cockpit view, but it'll have to do for now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo6IWRlUYB4
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Chrysler20%26
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Post by Chrysler20%26 »

I also like that the boom has no fixed point on the mast. For sleep overs you can raise it up an pitch a tent over it to make a large aft cabin. You are missing the mast gate, just a bent plate that fills the hole in the mast, that will stop your sail from falling on the deck.
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OutnBacker
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Post by OutnBacker »

It came with the boom tent awning in great shape. Also, a mainsail cover. I have a mast gate around here somewhere. There is no topping lift, so I had to Mcguyver one over the weekend. Instead, there is a 1/8 wire that is shackled up at the masthead that should be the topping lift, but I'll install a dacron 1/4" line that will run through a block off that shackle. Currently, the wire is static and does not adjust. It's just a dead line that goes from the head down to the pin at the end of the boom. I was hanging the boom very low on the mast to get the sail to set properly. Not sure it ever really did, but it worked.
Current: '75 Montgomery 17 #65
Current: '78 Chrysler 20
Past: '78 Chrysler 22
'98 Bauer 12 - gaff rig
'78 Orion Malibu 18
Forever: '83 Grumman 17, gunter rigged with jib and trimaran outriggers.
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OutnBacker
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Post by OutnBacker »

After Action Report - Continued: Retrieval

After two great days of sailing, I motored to the ramp. At the lanching, mt Jeep hitch bent down form the fatigue of launching the 22 and so I had my Ranger 4cyl this time. The Jeep has no truck frame but the Ranger does, with a hitch bolted to it. So I figured now would be as good a time as any to see if the little 2.3 auto, 2WD would do.

It did. With plenty to spare.

But some problems arose very soon, but not with the truck. The trailer is a very good trailer, but it is designed for a powerboat, not a sailboat. It has rollers on those pivot arms that require the deep V shape of a powerboat hull to properly cradle the boat as it moves up the trailer. So, as I began to pull the boat off the water, I noticed it was sort of lolling from side to side. Not good. It was actually only supported by the tipos of the rollers because the arms were still hanging straight down.

There was nothing to do but use my 2500lb straps in the truck to hold it while I drove the 7 miles home. Lucky I had three of thoase straps.

I'll jack it yp today and secure the pivot arms with heavy duty rubber cinchers, and keep a good eye open on them at each launch.

End Of Report
Current: '75 Montgomery 17 #65
Current: '78 Chrysler 20
Past: '78 Chrysler 22
'98 Bauer 12 - gaff rig
'78 Orion Malibu 18
Forever: '83 Grumman 17, gunter rigged with jib and trimaran outriggers.
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CaptainScott
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Post by CaptainScott »

Sounds like the C20 is a keeper for ya!
I still look forward to an after noon on the water!

I'm glad you decided to play with her for a while instead of diving right into projects!

Makes for more for! LOL!

I am interested in getting Chance together with Lady Jo one day if you are still interested! IF that does not work, I will be taking our dinghy down to Destiny in a few weeks. I could always zip out and get some shots of you sailing the C20!

Scott
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Chrysler20%26
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Post by Chrysler20%26 »

If you look at Bruce's photo, you will see that it has a V belt into the trailer. I leave the keel down 15% an the back of the boat will center every time. I like the rollers wish I had them on my C-20 I don't think that the sagging planks offer more support than the rollers. Ranger does the job that's a big +. You can get ride of the jeep. It came with a boom tent awning That's great. Now you have a boat with bunk beds, an the boat that can sleep six. The C-20 is more like the C-26 than the C-22. If only the C-26 had a 9 or ten foot beam. I think it would be a better boat. The C-22 is like my 1984 25 foot Mac. only the Mac. is 3 foot longer an 5,000 lb. lighter. It looks like the C-20 will fill your sailing needs. Try a 20 to 30 wind an 3 to 4 feet waves, that is a lot of fun.
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OutnBacker
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Post by OutnBacker »

CaptainScott wrote:Sounds like the C20 is a keeper for ya!
I still look forward to an after noon on the water!

I'm glad you decided to play with her for a while instead of diving right into projects!

Makes for more for! LOL!

I am interested in getting Chance together with Lady Jo one day if you are still interested! IF that does not work, I will be taking our dinghy down to Destiny in a few weeks. I could always zip out and get some shots of you sailing the C20!

Scott
I've had enough boats now so I have a good idea of what I'm looking for. That's why I'm being very cautious with the C-20, because it presents features that come closer to being a Keeper than any of the others so far. It's condition that matters now.

After two days of sailing in fairly lively condtions with an unknown boat with ratty sails, etc, I now will get into the muck and start that List. The problem with the trailer can be temporaraily fixed with tough rubber bungees to align the rollers, and I will continue to sail.

If you are around this weekend, maybe we can connect for a few pictures, or you can take her out as skipper if you want. A good opinion from the tiller would be appreciated.

John
Current: '75 Montgomery 17 #65
Current: '78 Chrysler 20
Past: '78 Chrysler 22
'98 Bauer 12 - gaff rig
'78 Orion Malibu 18
Forever: '83 Grumman 17, gunter rigged with jib and trimaran outriggers.
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OutnBacker
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Post by OutnBacker »

Chrysler20%26 wrote:If you look at Bruce's photo, you will see that it has a V belt into the trailer. I leave the keel down 15% an the back of the boat will center every time. I like the rollers wish I had them on my C-20 I don't think that the sagging planks offer more support than the rollers. Ranger does the job that's a big +. You can get ride of the jeep. It came with a boom tent awning That's great. Now you have a boat with bunk beds, an the boat that can sleep six. The C-20 is more like the C-26 than the C-22. If only the C-26 had a 9 or ten foot beam. I think it would be a better boat. The C-22 is like my 1984 25 foot Mac. only the Mac. is 3 foot longer an 5,000 lb. lighter. It looks like the C-20 will fill your sailing needs. Try a 20 to 30 wind an 3 to 4 feet waves, that is a lot of fun.
I'm really not a fan of roller trailers for heavy sailboats. All the Chryslers of 20, 22 and 26ft are heavy. Powerboat hulls of the size for this trailer are almost always built with stringers either molded in or encapsulated plywood, with solid foam filled between the pockets. This makes the hulls extremely stiff to be able to withstand the pounding forces of planing through chop. Planing begins to occur at about 18mph for a boat that would use this trailer. The rollers under a boat like that cannot deflect the hull, even if the boat sat there for years and years.

Sailboats of the same length typically don;t have any stringers, but only a liner tub and whatever thickness of lay-up the maker provided. There might be glass tabbings of thick roving between the tub and hull, but no stringers. They also lack the moled in strakes of a powerboat that add stiffness. Sailboats don't require the resistive structure of a powerboat because they don't go fast enough to pound themselves very hard. Plus, they need a rounded hull form to be able to sail effectively at all angles of heel, and to be able to tack smartly upon a round belly, rotating around a keel. The rounded hull form is very rigid when supported in water, but not necessarily on a trailer.

What this means is that rollers take all the weight and can cause cracks, not only in the gel coat, but in the glass lay-up itself, usually in the resin, which is the bond. A bunk trailer is alot easier on the hull of a sailboat because it distributes weight better, and cradles the hull.

I inspected a Victory 21 on a roller trailer (despite the fixed keel) and the hull was deflected over an inch inwards. Crawling inside, I found fractures on the opposite side of the roller pressure points that were the size of dinner plates.

Now, that's alotta talkin', I know. If a roller trailer is very carefully set up, so that the keel area is supported as well, no harm is likely. But my trailer is not adjustable, so there is a possible issue with a boat that I intended to keep.

John
Current: '75 Montgomery 17 #65
Current: '78 Chrysler 20
Past: '78 Chrysler 22
'98 Bauer 12 - gaff rig
'78 Orion Malibu 18
Forever: '83 Grumman 17, gunter rigged with jib and trimaran outriggers.
windnutlarry
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C20 Launch

Post by windnutlarry »

I agree with your thoughts on roller trailers for sailboats. Even if the weight of the boat doesn't deflect the hull, you are just a plugged cockpit drain from disaster if you store it outside for the winter. The C22 that I rescued came with a roller trailer, and the parts boat came with the standard Chrysler trailer. The roller trailer put the boat considerably higher for the five hundred or so trips up and down the ladder, and would have made launch very difficult if not impossible at the ramp in my small marina. A quick trip to a marina with a Travelift put it on the newly painted Chrysler trailer.
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Re: C20 Launch

Post by OutnBacker »

windnutlarry wrote:I agree with your thoughts on roller trailers for sailboats. Even if the weight of the boat doesn't deflect the hull, you are just a plugged cockpit drain from disaster if you store it outside for the winter. The C22 that I rescued came with a roller trailer, and the parts boat came with the standard Chrysler trailer. The roller trailer put the boat considerably higher for the five hundred or so trips up and down the ladder, and would have made launch very difficult if not impossible at the ramp in my small marina. A quick trip to a marina with a Travelift put it on the newly painted Chrysler trailer.
Yes, that's the other advantage of a bunk trailer: a slightly lower profile in many cases. Not so much with Chryslers because of the shoal draft up position, but with lots of other trailer sailers. Incidently, many of which are made with ease of launch quite high on the list of design targets, rather than seakeeping and durability, like the Chryslers.
Current: '75 Montgomery 17 #65
Current: '78 Chrysler 20
Past: '78 Chrysler 22
'98 Bauer 12 - gaff rig
'78 Orion Malibu 18
Forever: '83 Grumman 17, gunter rigged with jib and trimaran outriggers.
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Post by astrorad »

OutnBacker (John)...nice videos and good info in your posts...I liked the shot of loose footed sail on the C22...Thanx for posting.
Bill
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Post by OutnBacker »

Around here, I sail loose footed alot, due to the oft light airs. It really helps. With the high aspect ratio main you need to catch all the lower air you can because of the short foot.

hey, check out my recent post about the rudder issue and let me know what you think. Maybe it should be moved to the rudder discussion page. There's a similar lower rudder post assembly that was discussed over there a while ago.

Thanks,....and thanks for subscribing to my YouTube Channel.
John
Current: '75 Montgomery 17 #65
Current: '78 Chrysler 20
Past: '78 Chrysler 22
'98 Bauer 12 - gaff rig
'78 Orion Malibu 18
Forever: '83 Grumman 17, gunter rigged with jib and trimaran outriggers.
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Post by Capt. Bondo »

Do all C20's have double lower shrouds?
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You can go to a Zen Master or you can go Sailing, either way you end up in about the same place..... a Happy Place
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Post by OutnBacker »

Capt. Bondo wrote:Do all C20's have double lower shrouds?
All the pics I've seen show double lowers. I'm new to Chryslers and that feature was one of the things about the 20 that I found to be in a higher league, among others things. I did lots of homework.

I was originally looking for a Montgomery 17 for a long time, and as I sold my C-22 to get one locally, the guy sold it in the same hour. At the same time, this C-20 was pulled off of C-List, so I was stumped and beached and very nearly began a bad drinking habit.

Fortunately, the C-20 popped up again and after some wiggling, I got it.

I consider the C-20 to be built as well as the Montgomery 17, but not nearly as costly because of brand recognition. There are only a few things I think are better on the M-17 over the C-20: The M-17 tiller is transom mounted. No doubt becauase of the smaller size cockpit, but also for simplicty and ease of repair. Also, thje M-17 has molded-in hull strakes to lessen roll and break up waves along the hull.

The ballast to weight ratio is similar in both boats, making them extremely safe and stable. The superb design featutes on the C-20 are also built into the 22 and 26, although the standing rigging oin the C-20 is of the same gage but there is more of it. Herreshoff didn't mess around.
Current: '75 Montgomery 17 #65
Current: '78 Chrysler 20
Past: '78 Chrysler 22
'98 Bauer 12 - gaff rig
'78 Orion Malibu 18
Forever: '83 Grumman 17, gunter rigged with jib and trimaran outriggers.
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