Mast hing Question

John Stahl · Post by **John Stahl** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:00 am

I have installed a mast hing on to my C26. and i am getting ready to raise the mast for the first time.
Is the harness for raising the mast necessary if you have a mast hing?

parared · Post by **parared** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:21 am

IMHO, absolutely. I do not believe the hinge is designed to take that amount of torque. Not even close.

NYCSAILOR · Post by **NYCSAILOR** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:10 am

CAREFUL... don't rely on that hinge for any stability at all! it will at best jsut fail and snap and then the mast will run free OR worst transfer the torque to the mast step and cause you a VERY SERIOUS fiberglass repair problem..

I don't use a hinge for this very reason.. I don't trust myself..since I know I would get a little lazy and figure the hinge will hold for a second or two...OR .. hey it is not windy ..if I do winch this real fast....

Also, mast hinges were known t the time the c-26 was built and Chrysler decided NOT to go with a hinge step on a trailer boat so the J-Hook thing we have does give some stability but nothing more.... probably smart.

John Stahl · Post by **John Stahl** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:49 pm

OK i need a harness do any of you have the specks so i can make one?

monty · Post by **monty** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:11 pm

I see nobody is jumping on that one!!! I could measure mine, but I don't use the boom as I quickly got tired of stripping it every time I needed to step the mast.
That said, the only difference in length would be the overall as the lower harness is the critical one.
My raising rig is in the back of my truck, which is 50 ft. from where I'm sitting, but with 100,000 hungry mosquitoes waiting and the sun going down, I think I'll measure it tomorrow . . . . .

monty · Post by **monty** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:40 pm

ah, what the hell, skitters have to eat too! my lowers are 24" each (x4). From the top of those you'll have to take a line from each side to the eye on the mast (~6 ft. from base) and lines to the top of your gin pole (or boom).

What material are you going to use? Some adjustability would be nice. Mine is a little tight so I can't always use the correct slot in the toerail.

My rig is like the OEM one in the manual. With a 6:1 block and tackle I raise the mast alone quite easily. These boats have a lot heavier mast than the Macgregor that I used to just lift with no mechanical advantage.

DO NOT raise without a harness!!! I tried once and put a bend in the hook which, thankfully, survived the subsequent straightening!

John Stahl · Post by **John Stahl** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:29 pm

I cant invasion what you are talking about. draw me a sketch and label it so i know i get it right.

John Stahl · Post by **John Stahl** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:32 pm

what did you make to replace the boom? I like that idea!!!

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:38 am

Hi John,

As far as stepping the mast,

You do not need the hinge to step the mast.
You do not need the bridle or gin pole to step the mast.

These are simply tools to make stepping the mast easier or making it so you can do it single handed.

Without the "TOOLS" you can step your mast safely with 3 strong folks. Lay the mast aft with the base in the hook and the rest pointing straight aft. Attach two very long lines to the mast head. Run one foward to port and the other forward to starboard. Clear all halyards, stays and shrouds from snags. Have one person in the cockpit and one on on each line forward of your boat. The peron in the cocpit then lifts the top of the mast from the cocpit while moving forward in the cocpit. As he lifts the two folks on the ropes pull taking some of the wait and balancing the mast keeping it from swinging left and right. The weight transfer begins as the mast raises. Soon the person in the cocpit will have no weight and the lifting will come from the two helpers as they balance and lift. The aft stay keeps the mast from going to far forward and falling forward! The person in the cockpit then pins the forstay while the helpers hold the mast up.

This method works great however the base of the mast tends to "pop" off of the mast hook while setting this up. The mast hinge is a tools to keep the base of the mast on the mast step however does NOT take any serious loads. No more than the hook itself takes. With the mast hinge you still use 3 folks to step the mast.

The bridle and gin pole method allows a single person to step the mast without assistance. For example, I can take my boat from road ready to water ready in about 1/2 hour using the gin pole bridle method. This method is documented on my website see the link below.

I do not have specific measurements and I did not have them when I made my bridles. However you can eyeball the bridles and make your own. One leg hooks on the toe rail 23rd hole from the bow. The other leg hooks to the 32 hole from the bow. The two legs meet and have an eye at the height of the mast hinge point. I held a yard stick exactly centered between hole 23 and 32 from the bow. Pointed it straight up and eyeballed the measurement height at the mast step or where the bas of the mast sits. That was the height I wanted the eye of my bridle. I then measured each leg which should be exactly the same length and made my bridle!!

Keep in mind there are many ways folks step their masts. This is my method. I've seen many engenious methods to accomplish the exact same task. Most are just fine. The only methods that scare me are the ones with to few folks or a mast not properly supported. Remember when you raise your mast you may not be on flat ground. You may have to contend with some wind that will blow your mast around. Keep your trailer secure. Leave the tongue attatched to the tow vehicle or be sure to block the for AND aft of your trailer!

If you have any further questions, I'd be happy to help where I can!

Se the link stepping the mast alone or here is a video that kind give and idea!
http://captainscottsailing.com/video/Mast3.avi

Scott

parared · Post by **parared** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:45 am

Here is a design drawing for the bridle

http://www.chryslersailors.com/discussi ... af906a5ca0

Here is a picture of one of the bridles, after the mast has been raised ..

http://fortins.org/~chris/c22/Phone/0426091124bs.jpg

and here is a picture from further away

http://fortins.org/~chris/c22/pix/MastUp.jpg

you can see the jin pole horizontal coming forward form the mast, the jib sheets leading form the mast, through the bridles, to the end of the gin pole.

Its really easy to raise the mast single handed, as long as you rig the gin pole up properly.

tgentry · Post by **tgentry** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:38 am

My original manual (C-26) says to fasten the gin pole and mast lines to the bridle. This will work if your bridle is made exactly right. If not, things will get too tight or too loose on the way up or down.

Please be aware that with the line simply run through the bridle eye, as pictured, a cross wind can cause you some problems. The only thing resisting sideways movement of the mast and boom/gin-pole is the friction of the line through the bridle eyes.

I was able to resist a significant cross wind by standing on the windward side just forward of the mast with the mainsheet (used for raising the mast at that point) running on the leeward side of the boom/gin-pole. This gave me sufficent control to keep it all upright.

parared · Post by **parared** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:08 pm

[quote="tgentry"
Please be aware that with the line simply run through the bridle eye, as pictured, a cross wind can cause you some problems. The only thing resisting sideways movement of the mast and boom/gin-pole is the friction of the line through the bridle eyes.
[/quote]

From my experience, this is not correct. The gib sheets are run from the end of the gin pole, through the bridles, and then tied of, tightly, to the mast. Sideways motion of the mast is prevented by each tight jib sheet.

So, just to have it down somewhere,

I made a jin pole like shown here,

http://fortins.org/~chris/c22/index.html ( about 3/4 the way down, just an aluminum fence post, with a piece of steel stock attached to it, and a double eye at the other end )

I also have a lift line, the red line seen near the top of that page, which is just 50' of line through two double pulleys,

When I am lifting my mast, I

-1 ) attach bridles to toe rails
0 ) place the mast in its foot, held there by a wood jig I made up. All shrouds and the backstay are attached.
1 ) attach one of the pulleys to the toe line near the bow.
2 ) tie off one end of the lifting line near the bow
3 ) put the jin pole in the hole for it at the base of the mast.
4 ) attach second pulley to top of jin pole
5 ) attach jib halyard to top of jin pole. Tighten and tie off.
6 ) attach center of jib sheet to top of jin pole,
7 ) run one jib sheet though each bridle, and tie off tightly to mast ( I have a small metal loop on the forward face of my mast, about 7 feet up )
8 ) Now, with everything tight, pull the remaining side of the lifting line ( for this, I am standing on the bow ) and the mast will raise.
9 ) When you are about 3/4 of the way up, have someone check all of the turnbuckles for the shrouds and backstay, because if they are fouled ( twisted ) they will bend when the mast gets to the top.
10 ) when the mast is up, attach the forestay.

The jib sheets actually slide through the bridle as the mast raises and the geometry changes.

Hmmm .. did I miss anything?

tgentry · Post by **tgentry** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:49 pm

I know that is the setup that most of use, with the lines attached at the mast and gin, but if you push the mast sideways, you will find some, but not a lot, of resistance.

This is hard to explain without being more visual but try to imagine this:

1) If the mast is part way up and is pushed to port, the starboard mast to bridle dimension must lengthen by pulling line through the starboard bridle.

2) For that dimension to lengthen, the starboard gin to bridle dimension must shorten, which requires the gin to lean to starboard.

3) Of course that can only happen if the port gin to bridle dimension lengthens by pulling line through the port bridle.

4) Which it can do because the port mast to bridle dimension has shortened.

Obviously this all happens more or less simultaneously, and the result is your mast is allowed to continue it's lean to port. In other words, the mast can be off at quite an angle without changing the line lengths, all that is changing is the bridle location along the lines.

On the other hand, if the bridles align precisely with the pivot of the mast (both vertical and horizontally), and we attach the lines to the bridle as the manual states, the mast is secure from moving athwart ships and lines will remain snug as the mast goes from horizontal to vertical.

And to answer a question sure to follow: No I have not spent the time to set up my bridles this way. I just want everyone to be aware the mast CAN go sideways with the "pass through the bridle" setup. Of course once you get it up to about 70 degrees the shrouds start controlling it.

J. Austin · Post by **J. Austin** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:31 pm

Great explenation Tom, I was worried about stationary tieing to my bridle rings. I am lucky enough to have original ones, and as you said this makes it a mute point. as long as you put them in the right holes in toe rail!

astrorad · Post by **astrorad** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:55 pm

hey parared...do you play that xylophone/marimba that is in your garage???

tgentry · Post by **tgentry** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:58 am

Jay,
If you're sure you have the original bridles, would you mind carefully measureing them for us? I'm not sure if C-22 and C-26 bridles were the same but the dimensions I found seem a bit off to me.

parared · Post by **parared** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:38 am

@tgentry I bow to my superior. I've never had the mast go sideways under the bridle, but then again I don't remember any strong winds while lifting it.

@astrorad Heh, not I, but my daughter can. Its a wonderful thing hearing her figure out how to play the emperor's theme from Star Wars on the marimba

.

J. Austin · Post by **J. Austin** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:27 am

I would be glad to Tom. I will wrk on it this weekend. Then start a thread so it's easy to find later.

J. Austin · Post by **J. Austin** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:22 pm

As promised, and so not to hijack this thread.

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