Tiller and rudder Q's

Franklinp40 · Post by **Franklinp40** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:39 pm

Hey all! How is everyone's summer going? Drought here in Florida my new slip in Lake Harris has me turning mud each trip out. This lake sits in the center of the state on the ridge at 300 ft above sea level. We call it the mountains here. Because of this, the wind is great on this lake. Saturday i was enjoying some solo sailing and showing off for the blue hairs in their pontoon boats. (I wish i could see those pictures) I was caught off guard by a puff and pulled back on the tiller only to be greeted by a loud snap and me on the floor. I motored back in. The next day I used gorrila glue to attach my tiller handle back together and braced it with some steel angle bolted to the stick. So my problem is that the darn rudder floats! I was wondering if it was once filled with something like sand or BB's. It is cut open on the bottom from boat ramp dragging. I have to tie the thing down by wrapping the rope around the tiller. That little clamp is not working any more. Is this normal for it to float. I know that is how the tiller broke, it likely floated up just a bit making it hard to steer. Any help would be great. Thanks!

Anhinga · Post by **Anhinga** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:53 pm

The C26 has a foam filled rudder. It should be a little light in the water so you can pull it up. Mine will always kick up when the boat is moving unless it's tied down.

Later!

-JK

Jmckamey · Post by **Jmckamey** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:17 am

Why not purchase a new cleat? Mine works like it should and I have had no problems at all.

John K · Post by **John K** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:22 am

Yes, it's foam filled. It must be cleated to the tiller or otherwise fastened.

tgentry · Post by **tgentry** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:48 pm

On a related note, my tiller clam clear tends to slip. The tiller lines don't seem to be badly worn so I think it's the cleat. I'm thinking a cam cleat would be more secure.

When the rudder moves back a few degrees steering gets very heavy.

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:28 am

tgentry wrote: When the rudder moves back a few degrees steering gets very heavy.

This is a critical thing you have noticed! I've read of a few complaints about the weakness of the Chrysler rudder on the C22.

However I tend to disagree.

Here is why: When you sail your C22 as noted above, if the rudder line is loose at all, you know, the one that holds the rudder down, the rudder become progressively harder to use the looser the line. Now imagine our C22 in a stiff breeze. They like to round up a bit. Add that to a loose rudder line and you are struggling physically to hold the tiller! I mean you can be REALLY working at it! However if you pull the rudder down nice and tight you will find stearage to be like having power stearing in an old car! Suddenly it is very easy! She may still round up if you stall the rudder but the pressures and stresses are WAY less than if you have a loose line on the rudder! KEEP THAT LINE DOWN AND TIGHT!

OK then, why is this a problem. Think about your tiller handle. It is kind of low. As we move about our cockpit we tend to lift and lower the tiller a lot. When you tack, lift the tiller handle and switch sides. When some one moves about, lift the tiller handle to make room to move about. Stand in the cockpit. Lift the tiller handle to be able to reach it.

Each and every one of the lifts of the tiller handle cause the line to progressively loosen on the Jam Cleat. Yep, I do it all the time! So do other folks when taking the helm! I have a continous battle pulling the tiller line down and tight effectively locking the rudder down.

In my experience, the C22 rudder is MORE than adequatly strong enough IF you keep the rudder down and tight! Next time you sail try it! Let the rudder raise a little and you will notice an immediate and severe increase in strength it takes to stear your boat!!! YIKES! Even just a little affects it. Think of the leverages involved!!!!!!

So keep it down and sail safely and comfortably!

Scott

PS: Try sailing you C22/C26 WITHOUT ever liting the tiller handle. You will be amazed at how often you do lift it!!!! I was shocked when I was testing this exact issue how often I lifted it even alone on the boat!

tgentry · Post by **tgentry** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:58 am

Scott,
Mine loosens all by itself even without lifting the tiller. Maybe my cleat is worn or the line might be a wee bit too big for the cleat, but tightening the rudder line every 15 minutes is PITA.

CaptainScott · Post by **CaptainScott** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:00 am

tgentry wrote:Scott,
Mine loosens all by itself even without lifting the tiller. Maybe my cleat is worn or the line might be a wee bit too big for the cleat, but tightening the rudder line every 15 minutes is PITA.

Yes, I agree. I'm currently working on ideas for my boats.
If you reoplace the line and the cleat with a properly sized cleat I'm sure you will have MUCH BETTER performance than a 40 year old line and cleat!!

A new cleat will take a sharp bite out of a new line and hold it nicely.
Just besure to size the properly.

I'm considering the more expensive spring loaded jams cleats for my boat.
Scott

John K · Post by **John K** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:57 am

I put a new clam cleat on my tiller and have had no problems since. I have experienced sailing in pretty good weather with the rudder back about 10 degrees (before I replaced the cleat), and it was uncontrollable almost to the point of panic. But, like Scott said, if it's all the way down, the rudder is a good performer. My weather helm is much lighter than that of my friend's Catalina. I attribute this largely to the fact that the rudder is not hanging off of the transom, and the fact that the Chrysler rudder has a bit of a leading edge in front of the post. So, it kind of dives into the turn, as opposed to being a big spoiler. I like the stock rudder!

Dallasbob · Post by **Dallasbob** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:05 pm

Mine stay's put now that I've run new lines to new cleats.

KeithR · Post by **KeithR** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:22 pm

I added new lines as well amd I no longer have any problems with rudder lift.

One additiona; thing I did; when I had the rudder out for repairs over the winter, I added a ring of UHMW (think white cutting board material)between the tiller head and stuffing box packing ring to reduce friction.

You can't believe how easy it is to move the tiller!

https://picasaweb.google.com/1130883353 ... 9204651698

https://picasaweb.google.com/1130883353 ... 1867792546

https://picasaweb.google.com/1130883353 ... 2422174610