volvo penta md5b ???????

anotherfng · Post by **anotherfng** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:29 pm

Any one with some good info on the volvo md5b?? I know they are not the most desirable engine, but thats what my boat came with, so Im trying to make lemonade out of lemons! I have fuel, (blead all the lines), intake is sucking air like it should, seems to have good compression(havent tested it yet),but all she does is crank and crank and doesnt want to start. HELP!! Found the fuel shutoff lever, but there is a second lever similar to it, that actuates something on the motor that I dont know what it is, and there is a 3 position electrical switch on the instrument panel that i also dont know what it is. Ive tried the wd40 in the intake trick, still no luck. Is there something Im missing, or do I have to yank the engine and plan on a rebuild. Any info will be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Tom

Greg48 · Post by **Greg48** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:56 pm

I believe this is the same boat I drove down from Washington to buy last winter. If it is when I tried to turn the engine over by hand with the flywheel it didn't want to move. I put some muscle into it and it finally did move. If I were doing it I would crank the engine over until she builds oil pressure without the diesel turned on then let it sit for a couple hours, maybe do this a couple times. As long as she has set she is probably to low on compression even though it feels like she has plenty. Diesels usually have about twice the compression as gas engines. When you try and start with diesel on you can spray a little wd 40 in the air intake, like starting fluid. If this is the boat I looked at I reserched the engine and it is a honda motor even though it says volvo penta.Good luck and I hope this helps you get it going

Greg48 · Post by **Greg48** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:07 pm

Should have read you post twice, I see you have already tried everything I said. Don't remember if that engine has external fuel line. If it does crack the line at the injector and turn the engine over with the battery until she squirts diesel without air. This is how you bleed the fuel lines in cat truck engines and should work the same for your engine. Hope this helps

anotherfng · Post by **anotherfng** » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:41 pm

Thanks so much for your advice! Im pretty sure its a genuine volvo penta, because all the research I have done on it shows the same engine with the same components. Not sure about the oil pressure? will cranking it without the fuel on increase the compression??? I am so confused on this engine i will entertain all thoughts. Everything i am seeing and reading says that my engine should start, but it still doesnt. I guess i just want to exhaust all options before I yank it. If i get it out and spend a bunch of time and money on it to find that all i had to do was flip a switch or replace fitting, i think ill cry like a little baby! but I guess thats all part of the process! I continue to lean on more experienced people such as your self and im either gonna get it going with some of your advice before or some of your advice after i pull this @#$%@#$ engine. Once again thanks for the input!! Tom \
BTW this boat was in apache junction Az. and has a Texas Hull number with Galviston printed on the Stern. do you still think its the boat you looked at? Curious

Andiron120 · Post by **Andiron120** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:07 am

The most likely problem on a diesel is air in the fuel lines, on some it can be a true trial to get out. The second lever that does somthing on the engine is quite possibly to hand prime the fuel system in case it ever runs out of fuel. If you can find any published procedures for priming and restarting it after running out of fuel it would not be a bad place to start. Bleeding the fuel lines at the injector will also give you some idea wheather or not your injector pump is working. If you have replaced fuel filters, did you fill the filter with clean diesel before installing? I had a utility tractor on which that was very nessacery at one time. Good luck, hope you can get her going.

anotherfng · Post by **anotherfng** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:00 am

im getting fuel to evey bleed point including the injector with no air. If it is a fuel problem it has to be that there is just not enough fuel pressure for some reason, cause i have bled the system thoroughly. Im gonna try pulling the injector pump today to see if for some reason it is not delivering fuel with enough pressure. The lift pump has the primer on it so the second lever im pretty sure doesnt have anything to do with priming, it has something to do with the govenor i believe. Still confused!!!

Andiron120 · Post by **Andiron120** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:20 am

Ok, well it sounds to me like you are hitting all the right points and moving steadily in the right direction, that would be my next move also I believe. You will find if before long and all the confusion will clear. Don't let it get you down.

anotherfng · Post by **anotherfng** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:31 am

Thanks for the support! I really appreciate it. Im not down, cause i bought the boat expecting to have to rebuild the engine. I am however, frustrated, cause it lookes to be something fixable without rebuilding it and I cant figure it out! UGGGHHH! I have plenty of work to do on this old girl. The engine is just one thing I would like to get figured out before i get closer to having the rest done(done enough to use that is, I know itll never really be done)!

clair hofmann · Post by **clair hofmann** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:46 pm

DO you have an adequate cold crank amp battery? I have an old diesel tractor and if the battery isn't up full , it will not crank fast enough to start. The easiest way to tell if it is a fuel or compression problem is to spray a SMALL amount of starting fluid in the intake while cranking. If the engine fires, you have a fuel delivery problem. Not sure if this is the same thing as the WD40 thing. I've never heard of doing that.
Pull the injectors and pour a small ampnt of 5 30 oil in the cylinders and turn it over to loosen up the rings. if you have a shop nearby that can check the injectors, have them pressure tested. You also might be able to hook them back up to the lines while out of the head and check the pattern yourself. They may be pluged or restricted from sitting so long.
If you're getting fuel when you prime I guess its not the obvious, the engine shut down switch/lever.
If you can rent or borrow a compression gauge, check that. As was mentioned before, a diesel ignites by the higher compression. One last thing you can try is to pull the valve cover and check the valve train. This is simple to do and will show you if a valve is hung open or not opening and give you an idea how the engine looks inside.This could be another symptom of sitting a long time.
Sorry I rambled but I was just putting it down as I thought of things. Keep us posted on your progress
Clair

monty · Post by **monty** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:16 pm

I haven't looked to see what the difference is between an md5a & md 5b, but I have a 5a that has given me some usefull experience that I can pass on.

How's the compression? I used a cheap gauge (friction fit) and got around 260 lbs. You gotta have adequate compression to make enough heat.

Make sure you have fresh, clean fuel.

You may want to remove the injector and have a shop test it before subjecting your expensive starter to too much cranking. My injector was 'weak', so $165. later. . . .

You should have a decompressor lever on the valve cover. It keeps the exhaust valve open when it is 'up' and allows the valve to close when it is 'down'. You'll hear the difference when cranking. The idea is to put it in the up position and crank the engine, closing the valve when the engine is cranking at its' fastest. I never found this to be of any use though.

One more thing would be to disconnect the alternator. A replacement alternator may create too much drag for the engine to start. This was a problem I had with mine. I had run it extensively in the yard with the belt off, but when I launched it was a no go. I spent almost a full day going through everything again before throwing off the belt as a last ditch effort. Belt on-no go, belt off-starts instantly!

People say if you have fuel and compression, a diesel will start, the small single just seems to be a little more sensitive than larger engines!

good luck!

monty · Post by **monty** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:24 pm

The other lever you found may be the cold start lever. Anything I've read says that it is not required. It's apparently only used in cold climates!

anotherfng · Post by **anotherfng** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:22 pm

To anyone who doesnt know, the wd40 trick, it is as most diesel mechanics say "starting fluid for diesels". Traditional starting fluid is not good at all for diesel motors, so if you do use it, only use a little at a time. it can biuld up, and cause your motor to detinate (worse on diesels than gasoline engines). Also diesels are lubricated by the fuel itsself and traditional starting fluid (even the ones that say upper head lubricating) dont provide the lubrication that diesel does, however wd40 does. The downfall to wd40 is that its flashpoint is much higher than starting fluid, so its not quite as easy to get fire with. I know a little about diesels and a very few little tricks, but this volvo penta has got me confused. I do greatly appreciate the info and the last couple posts have given me ideas that I havent tried, so back to the drawing board! Wish me luck guys, and Thanks so much!! Tom

Mario G · Post by **Mario G** » Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:35 am

Hey Tom bare with me because my knowledge comes from VW diesels but I see if I can't help.

First I would see if you are getting fuel and you might need to look for a beeder to purge air from the system. it would be on the distrabution pump. and yes you should have a choke of some sort for startup.

The other side would be electrical and thats the glo-plugs. you need to get them hot befor you turn the engine over. not knowing anything about the volvo engine all I can tell you is about VW technoligy( volvo for a long time shared alot with VW) you had a pull switch that put power to the glow plugs and had a light to tell you when there were heated. A test light should tell you if you get power to the glo-plugs

Hope this helps

tgentry · Post by **tgentry** » Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:31 am

Given my little bit of automotive diesel experience and your symptoms:

Make sure your battery and starter are good. Diesels need to spin over good and fast to get going. The old rrrrar,rrrrar, rrrrar of a weak gas engine won't cut it.

Check the glow plugs and attendant circuitry. Make sure the plugs have the proper resistance and they are getting power.

Check compression. Compression on a diesel is very high, if it's out of spec you'll have trouble starting, even though the engine may run ok once it's started.

monty · Post by **monty** » Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:52 am

tom,

don't waste your time looking for glow plugs (or intake pre-heater)

cranking speed would appear to be critical, I had my starter overhauled and installed an underdrive pulley to solve my no-start problem as described previously.

monty

anotherfng · Post by **anotherfng** » Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:57 am

Unless the glow plug is hidden very well this thing doesnt have one. This is a single cylinder diesel so you would think it would be simple!! My buddy who is a heavy equipment diesel mechanic has been helping me and said the same about the glow plug(that there isnt one unless its hidden very well). He concedes that this diesel is a different beast than what hes used to working on, but he has hit all the same ideas that you guys have hit on. Im gonna get a new battery today and if that doesnt work, im gonna take the belt off the alternator, and if that doesnt work, i will simply talk very nice to the engine and buy it some flowers and ask it politely to start working for me, and if that doesnt work im gonna say a few bad words, and if that doesnt work, im gonna kick the engine a few times!!

anotherfng · Post by **anotherfng** » Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:57 pm

I HATE THIS ENGINE!!!!

LeatherneckPA · Post by **LeatherneckPA** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:59 am

I'm guessing that didn't work?

tgentry · Post by **tgentry** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:59 am

Hang in there. We had tons of motor problems (not diesel). At least the sails work.

Andiron120 · Post by **Andiron120** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:04 am

Wow, we must have met somewhere, I believe you have hit on my mechanical procedure right down to the final kick and curse.

Always keep in mind that with the addition of a little cement and chain, it could become a fine anchor for a mooring.

EmergencyExit · Post by **EmergencyExit** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:41 am

Well, you've sure got my curiousity going. I googled it up and there really isn't much to the engine.

Assuming I found the right engine at

http://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/e-v ... -MD5B.aspx

In case you didn't see these links, possibly some helpful discussion here:

http://forums.lancer.sailboatowners.com ... p?t=118114

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119022

en.kendincos.net/video-dttllhff-2006-october-volvo-penta-md5.html

monty · Post by **monty** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:50 am

tom,
sounds like you haven't had any luck getting it started.

again, you need 3 things to get it going:

1.fuel through the injector. take the injector to a shop and ask them to do a 'pop' test to check the spray pattern and release pressure- I've never been charged for this at any shop I've been to. Make sure you have fuel flow out of open injector line when cranking.

2.compression. it is possible to use a friction fit automotive tester, I would think 250 psi would be sufficient.

3.cranking speed. don't know how to quantify this one, but engine should be at cranking speed quickly not taking several seconds to get up to speed.

hope this helps

anotherfng · Post by **anotherfng** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:29 am

OK! Ive calmed down! I did however find that there is diesel in my oil! No bueno!!!! Bad as that seems, its kind of a relief to know (compression is low as to be expected with such a discovery)!! Now the question is to pull the engine all the way out, or rebuild it where it sits. I removed the galley (gonna build a new one anyway) so there is lots of room! Any input as to rather or not i should just rebuild the top end or go top to bottom with this thing. My diesel buddy seems to think this engine will be just fine with a top end rebuild, cause everything else seems tight!?!?!? Dont want to be mr. cheap, but money isnt quite the same as it once was, so I dont want to spend money thats not necessary either!!!

tgentry · Post by **tgentry** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:24 pm

I would assume whoever did the compression check, rechecked with a squirt of oil in the cylinder. This usually tells you if the valves or the rings are the culprit (if compression goes up significantly after the oil, it's rings).

I don't believe there's any way to do rings from the top, but if the cylinders are good and round, you might get away without any boring. This might allow you to do it without removing the block from the boat. You'll still need crankcase access though.

If the rings seem to be good, you could just do the valves and give it a try.

anotherfng · Post by **anotherfng** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:18 pm

I would like to say we did it with a squirt of oil after the initial test, but that would be a lie. Kinda figured with the amount of diesel that was bleeding into the oil that it didnt really matter at that point?!?!?!? do you think that valves could be causing the problem?? Didnt even really entertain that idea, just assumed the rings or cylinder walls(hopefully not) were worn and needed replaced/machined! What do you think? Tom

tgentry · Post by **tgentry** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:41 pm

Fuel in the oil could be bad rings, or it could just be that raw fuel has accumulated in the cylinders from non-starting and seeped through.

You really need to verify the condition of the rings somehow, like the squirt of oil test, but I'm betting you'll need new rings. I'm not familiar with the installation in your boat to know if it's feasible to do that job in place or if you'd be better off removing the engine.

If you do end up removing the engine I would recommend a full overhaul so that you never have to worry about it again.

monty · Post by **monty** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:10 pm

Now that you've determined low compression you'll want to take your time to check things out to make sure you fix the real problem.

How low is the compression? No sense doing valves if it needs rings or piston. If ether has been used no telling what damage there is. The decompressor is closed? Remove the valve cover and check the valve clearances - you never know what someone might have tinkered with!

A cylinder leak down test should give you an indication of the condition of the valves. It may be possible to pressurize the cooling system to check for head or block leaks.

How much fuel in the oil? Unburned fuel should have been sent out the exhaust. On some diesels a leaking injector pump can fill the crankcase with fuel. Perhaps a leaking fuel pump could do the same.

Going to have to take your time now to get it right!

Capt. Bondo · Post by **Capt. Bondo** » Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:35 am

Just pull it out,

and go through the whole drive train over the winter.
It would be good to check the stuffing on the prop shaft and the trans also.

Make everything trustworthy/seaworthy. Remember your life may depend on this equipment and you don't want to it half assed.

And it's easer to clean the bulge when the motor and stuff is out of the way.

Imagine how nice it wil be...smooth running, freshly painted diesel sitting in it's clean white engine compartment, ready to answer to your comand

Do it right the first time and you won't need to do it twice

anotherfng · Post by **anotherfng** » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:39 pm

I think you convinced me! Im gonna get started on it this weekend! Meanwile, I have plenty of other things that need attention, so Ill be busy! Thaks again for all the wonderful advice, I really appreciate all the help!!!

anotherfng · Post by **anotherfng** » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:25 pm

Does anyone know if and where i can buy rebuild kit for the md5b, or am i gonna have to piece this thing together one part at a time?