I lost my rudder

surveywaters · Post by **surveywaters** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:50 pm

Stick is definetly not the way to weld it. I am forced to pay for the welding, all I have is an arc welder. I was wondering about the straightening with heat. I don't have oxy/ace either so I guess I'll be forced to pay for that as well, ouch.
The weld holding the inside pipe to the outside is busted clean through. I hope the shop can weld and smooth that back together without taking the whole thing apart or it will get real expensive real fast.
I ordered the HDPE for the rudder and some UHMW for the bushing, I'll start it next weekend and post pics.

Just a big hole in the water to through your hard earned money in, but boy is it fun

surveywaters · Post by **surveywaters** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:01 pm

Dropped my bracket off at the fabricators for repairs today. They will straighten the cheeks, weld the crack and reinforce, re-weld the cheeks to the tube and reinsert/weld the inner tube, all for $100. I feel like it's a fair price.

EE: I got the template and I really appreciate it, that will be a huge help.

I have however made the same mistake most of us nerds make when taking on a project well beyond our own experiences.

..I researched.
Now I am looking at the rudder profile and am questioning every aspect of it. I have read stories of tiller vibration while under way as well as heavy lee or weather helms. I came across a site that allows you to input rudder parameters to come up with a NACA foil design, so here is a 50% scale of a profile I am considering. This is however much more complicated to mill in my shop at home. I need to know if I am going way over board here. I mean, will a simple taper aft and a nice rounded leading edge be good enough, or do I really need lift from the foil design? I have no idea what the stock profile looks like.

EmergencyExit · Post by **EmergencyExit** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:09 pm

First - Glad you got the template okay

Second - D'oh !! I could've sent the foil profile with it, didn't even occur to me.

Tell you what, its still outside in the garage, I'll get you a pic or something. There's not a lot to the stock shape really, its a bit of a slab.

surveywaters · Post by **surveywaters** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:12 pm

That's what I want to hear! Please send photos. If it's a slab then it will be waayyyyy easier. The more I think about milling this foil the more hitches occur to me. I don't plan to race the thing.

sauerleigh · Post by **sauerleigh** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:36 pm

Sounds like you got a good deal on the metal work. Do you have a CNC router? Just wondered how you planned to cut the rudder profile.

surveywaters · Post by **surveywaters** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:02 pm

I have a router and raw determination.

My intentions are to build a jig for the material to set in which will have slides for my router to ride on.. My biggest hurtle is in making the hub like hp18carr showed earlier. I will be cutting it like LeatherneckPA suggests, I just hope I get it all right, this sheet of HDPE had to be shipped from California to South Carolina, way to expensive to screw up.

Capt. Bondo · Post by **Capt. Bondo** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:24 pm

Make a practice one out of pine first, see how it fits, and use what you learn to make the final one better

surveywaters · Post by **surveywaters** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:45 pm

Good tip, I plan to laminate some mdf to form a 1 1/2" plank. The material is fine enough to cut easily with the router and should show fairly minute imperfections. This will let me know if the technique will cause rippling in the surface or any other unforseen results.

surveywaters · Post by **surveywaters** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:08 pm

In the link to the factory rudder with the superimposed grid, what is the piece in the upper left hand corner? I see that it is attached using the two mystery holes in the bracket. Does anyone still have this and could having it possibly prevent the rudder from raising enough to hit the prop?

surveywaters · Post by **surveywaters** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:47 pm

Getting exciting in the shop -insert grunt- I have used quite a few tools to get ready for this posting. The main shape of the rudder profile is complete.Here is a few pics of the jigs used to create the profile as well as the rudder shaping up. I did end up going with an NACA foil design, it's probably really close to what IDaSailor uses. This material is amazingly easy to work with. It routes better than MDF, cuts fairly easily on the tablesaw, drills nicely, and should be fine on the ban saw or jig saw. This project has been really easy and anyone with these few tools could make one themselves. The material costs about $150 with shipping. That's dirt cheap for a new rudder that outperforms the old wet heavy one.

One note, HDPE does sink, that last triumphant swallow of beer was really chewy

sauerleigh · Post by **sauerleigh** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:08 pm

Looks great!

EmergencyExit · Post by **EmergencyExit** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:37 pm

Just went out in the garage to make an airfoil template, but there's not much of one !! What you're doing will be much better...

kokezaru · Post by **kokezaru** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:16 pm

surveywaters wrote: It routes better than MDF, cuts fairly easily on the tablesaw, drills nicely, and should be fine on the ban saw or jig saw.

I wonder how easily the prop will cut it . . .

surveywaters · Post by **surveywaters** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:16 am

I think the prop will slice right through it, has anyone tried one of these?

EmergencyExit · Post by **EmergencyExit** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:36 am

kokezaru wrote: I wonder how easily the prop will cut it . . .

Can't be worse than the stock one.

I keep saying I'm going to put a ring around EE's prop. But then again I also keep saying I'll never forget the motor is idling in gear when I let the rudder up. That's just a dumb thing to do, and I have done it twice. (I always run the carb dry after docking, and the way EE was moored I needed the motor pushing the bow forward against the stern lines to be able to step off her nose onto the dock)

LeatherneckPA · Post by **LeatherneckPA** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:37 am

surveywatersgreat looking replacement.

sauerleigh, I like that idea. Have to keep it in the back of my ind for [/b]Believer[/b].

surveywaters · Post by **surveywaters** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:05 pm

Couple quick questions:

What size are the rudder control lines, do I need the SS tubes ay the knots since it's plastice instead of glass/wood sandwhich, and does anyone use a smaller line attached to the down control line that will break if you hit ground?

Thanks

sauerleigh · Post by **sauerleigh** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 3:00 pm

I would still use the tubes. If the knot does split the plastic, I'm certain that you can not bond it with anything to try to repair it. This material will also absorb water over time and I not certain how that might change its properties. The lines I removed from my rudder were 3/8".

surveywaters · Post by **surveywaters** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:23 pm

HDPE has a water absorption rate of >0.001 and is used in many prolonged submersion industrial applications so I am not to concerned about the physical properties changing, but it is soft so I agree and have finally found some SS tubing. As for repairs, it can be plastic welded pretty easily, so I can build the material back up if needed or repair splits.

I got my bracket back today, they charged me one hours labor($55) and $20 in materials which included 2' of 3/4" SS tube. If you look here on pg. 2 img 26, you can see they welded a reinforcement plate to either side.

I still would like a good pic of this mystery piece. I installed a piece in the hole there in the bracket which does indeed keep the rudder from coming in contact with the prop.

EmergencyExit · Post by **EmergencyExit** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:31 pm

If I see what you are pointing to, it is just background in the image, should be like this maybe ?

surveywaters · Post by **surveywaters** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:07 pm

Is it not still visible in the pic to the left showing the trailing edge? And what are the two holes in the top of the bracket for?

surveywaters · Post by **surveywaters** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:12 pm

I just blew up the image and took a good look, there is definetly a piece there, but I also see that the rudder has been bolted to the bracket to prevent it from swinging, so the owner may have fabbed this. I still would like to know what the two holes in the top of the bracket aft the tube are for.

surveywaters · Post by **surveywaters** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:13 pm

FINISHED!!

The rudder is complete including a 3" hub made of the same material HDPE) with 4--5/16" and 1--1/2" bolt, SS sleeves for the nots, SS shaft collar to replace the aluminum which sticks to the tube, and I refinished the rudder bearings and tiller. The finished rudder weighs in at 24lbs and because of the material it slides like glass to raise and lower. The block I installed in the two mystery holes does keep the rudder from contacting the prop!

Sunday will have a closing statement to include a sail report.