Topside painting - Lessons learned

Here you can discuss Chrysler Sailing across all makes of Chrysler sailboats.
User avatar
tgentry
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 719
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 7:29 am
Location: Rockford, IL

Topside painting - Lessons learned

Post by tgentry »

Pictures will be coming, but I just wanted to share a few things in case anyone else is about to paint.

1) If you're doing any "cutting in" along the rub rail, around hardware, etc. do this during the tipping process. If you do it in advance, the paint will be too dry and you'll get a ridge.

2) Inspite of what what I read and saw on videos, you need to put the paint on fairly wet to get the leveling effect. Just not so wet it runs.

3) The tipping brush needs to be fairly wet so that it glides along the paint. Just about wet enough to paint with, but you're using almost no pressure so the paint stays on the brush. (we used a foam brush since that's what was used by the Pettit rep in a video)

4) The tipping needs to be done immediately behind the roller. Cathy rolled and we found that tipping worked best when I was only a foot behind her as we worked our way around the boat.

5) Tip it once, then leave it alone. Trying to fix anything will just make it worse. The paint gets tacky faster than you realize.

6) We initially thought tipping was the more "skilled labor" between the two. In retrospect I think rolling is. Getting a nice, even, wet coat is the key. Let the tipping take care of ridges, bubbles, etc.

Here is a picture after our first coat.
Image
Tom
1981 Endeavour 43 s/v Pearl Lee
Former 1976 Columbia Payne 9.6 s/v Gin Rhumby
Former 1979 Chrysler 26, s/v Copacetic
http://www.asswhaffleyachtclub.net
http://www.svpearllee.com
User avatar
EmergencyExit
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2956
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:02 pm
Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast

Post by EmergencyExit »

Good advice, and exactly what I'm learning as I paint the Cal21. I used the Interlux primer as specified ( I had to strip old red paint off the Cal) and found it to be very tacky soon after rolling as well. Moreso than the Brightsides.

Also found that much wind at all seems to accelerate the drying, and really shortens the time you have to successfully tip.
Wound up sanding a coat of primer nearly off after trying it on a windy morning.


I wasted a bit of that precious Sapphire Blue and used the old Bantam as a test base after that first coat of primer went funky.
User avatar
Banshi
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 691
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:10 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Contact:

Post by Banshi »

Looks good and your tips are right on........try doing it alone :)roll tip roll tip roll tip roll tip......................you can't stop until your done. If you are outside you need to do it early before it heats up and on a day with no wind. Next time I take the rail off it was the only area I had a hard time with.
User avatar
CaptainScott
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3112
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Post by CaptainScott »

That looks nice!
I like the blue!


Nice job!
Scott
User avatar
tgentry
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 719
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 7:29 am
Location: Rockford, IL

Post by tgentry »

It's a 20 foot paint job, but I wasn't willing to put the time into it to make it perfect.

I'll start on the striping tomorrow evening, and I'm trying to arrange for a local sign painter to put the name/logo on.

I figure if I put the same time per square foot into it that I used to put into car restorations it wouldn't touch the water this year. :lol:
Tom
1981 Endeavour 43 s/v Pearl Lee
Former 1976 Columbia Payne 9.6 s/v Gin Rhumby
Former 1979 Chrysler 26, s/v Copacetic
http://www.asswhaffleyachtclub.net
http://www.svpearllee.com
User avatar
thepartydog
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 10:50 pm
Location: Crestview Florida

Post by thepartydog »

When are you coming down to paint my boat?
Darin
"Ya Never Know"
1980 C26
User avatar
CaptainScott
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3112
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Post by CaptainScott »

tgentry wrote: I figure if I put the same time per square foot into it that I used to put into car restorations it wouldn't touch the water this year. :lol:

LOL! Don't I know that!!!

I just finished installing a completely new "Vintage Air" airconditioning system in my ole' chevy! Good Lord what a lot of work! I replaced EVERYTHING. Condensor, evaporator, compressor, all the ducting, hoses, wiring, under hood, and underdash, EVERYTHING!

On a good note my little used, 60's, two door, chevy econobox now puts out some serious cold and serious hot air! Heck I can even defrost the windows now!

Scott
User avatar
Alanhod
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1478
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:30 pm
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Post by Alanhod »

That is one pretty boat! Thanks for the tips everyone.

Alan
It's a good life on the
Honu, 1976 C-22
My Chrysler Sailing Photos: http://s1297.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... ry/Sailing
NYCSAILOR
Posts: 752
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:38 pm
Location: NY, NY

Post by NYCSAILOR »

THANK YOU! I am in a quandry....

it is May already and my boat is not in the water...my C-26 is somehow "beige" and looks terrible. my wife says that if it goes in the water "as is" she disavows any knowledge of the boat and won't sail her... she wants it all fresh painted white asap.

I spoke to four painting pros' to inspect it and get estimates... all four looked at it and did not even bother to get back to me... the one guy kindly told me that it needs to be sprayed to look right and that quite frankly withthe cost of painting it professionally -- well, just buy a new boat... he also took me around the boat yard to other boats and -- this is what worried me--- he said if you paint it yourself OR with a roller/brush -- it will look terrible and it will cost you much more int eh future to get right since you will have to now strip off all the brushed on paint....

so we are in a hurry to get in teh water ( mistake no. 1) and my wife says fine -- no big deal let's just paint it ourselves.... ( I have yet to expalin that the prep/repair may take several weekends); last season I killed myself over a weekend polishing her with 3-M cleaner restorer -- the gelcoat is in good shape but I have concluded that it will never get shiny white since the OEM color seems to be an "off-white" beige / red cove stripe...

so any tips on how much time this shoudl take...

I have OEM white / red combo..
I want white / blue strip combo...

What was required for prep and how would you take off the toe rail. or is it the rub rail that comes off?

what did you do it on the transom... remove or tape?

what is best / easiest for a team to apply ---interlux?

I plan on painting teh inside cabin ( it is a really ugly " seas-sickness almond" color ) first myself to practice ...

also my non-skid is a real dark OEM beige.... I plan on painting that white... how do you paint non-skid ( I think a roller would not work...)

I have done a lot of reasesrch saw the you-tube videos of real happy ( paint co reps) guys painitng their boat etc. but they make is look real easy .. I am not sure ...

My only bottom line hope is that the OEM boat right now cosmetically looks so old it could only improve... ( I have the crapiest looking boat in teh marina ( who has time for all this?)

Also.. can you "polish" the mast? I was told leave it alone don't you dare touch it it would remove teh alum.. anodization that is protecting it... but it looks like a dirty old pipe..
C-26, Fixed Keel # 343
User avatar
tgentry
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 719
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 7:29 am
Location: Rockford, IL

Post by tgentry »

First, spraying would be nice, and I would have done so if I had a 30 foot paint booth, but the roll and tip method isn't bad. It's not a show car finish, but looks great from a few feet away. We went with a darker color, with white it would look even better since white sort of hides surface imperfections.

We used one part Pettit Easypoxy and have no complaints, though we also have nothing to compare it to. Interlux has both a one part and a two part, and of course there's Awlgrip two part. The two part cures to full hardness faster and is probably a bit tougher, but I wanted to keep it as simple as possible.

Prep could be done in a weekend:
1) Wipe down with dewaxer
2) Sand to a frosty appearance with 220. (I used a 1/4 sheet random orbit sander)
3) Feather edge, fill and block sand any chips, gouges, etc.
4) Another overall sanding with 220 just to be sure.
5) Another dewaxing to be sure.
6) Tack cloth

We masked off the rub rail, leaving it in place. I don't see any reason to remove it. We masked off the waterline, the bow and stern eyes and the ladder. I would have liked to remove the ladder, but our particular boat has some non-accessible nuts in the upper mounts.

I agonized a bit over the motor mount and it's many screws, but in the end decided to paint right over the screws. If we decide we don't like it, I'll replace them one by one.

Bottom line, we would not be afraid to do the same job on another boat, and probably will someday. The results are worth the effort and cost.

Now we need more fenders! :lol:

As for the mast, I have heard of people painting the mast, and we might consider that next spring.
Tom
1981 Endeavour 43 s/v Pearl Lee
Former 1976 Columbia Payne 9.6 s/v Gin Rhumby
Former 1979 Chrysler 26, s/v Copacetic
http://www.asswhaffleyachtclub.net
http://www.svpearllee.com
User avatar
Banshi
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 691
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:10 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Contact:

Post by Banshi »

I think the picture at the beginning of this thread proves the "professional" wrong. I have people uew and aww mine all the time with a shocked look when I tell them it is painted. They all think it is a new boat and I don't think it is any where near as good as it will be the next time I do it. I rolled and tipped mine using interlux brightside above the water line and Interlux VC performance epoxy on the bottom. Learn more here http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/

As to the deck I used Interlux Interdeck non skid that was rolled on
Last edited by Banshi on Tue May 04, 2010 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NYCSAILOR
Posts: 752
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:38 pm
Location: NY, NY

Post by NYCSAILOR »

Thanks! practical real expereince info from a DIY'er.... I don't think I have a choice anyway... it seems I can't find ANYONE
"professional" to take my money anyway so if I want my wife to sail.. ( if I don't get this C-26 project going she is a few weeks from going out and buying a powerboat (ugh!)) then roll and tip it will be.... I better get started while the weather here is mild.... how did you handle winds , sand, and bugs gettign in the paint? and do I really have to "obsess" over teh prep... I heard of couples spending weeks on repair and prep and sanding etc.... teh pro told me the paint is very thin and that the prep is very impt. as anything you "see" now you will see later...
C-26, Fixed Keel # 343
User avatar
tgentry
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 719
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 7:29 am
Location: Rockford, IL

Post by tgentry »

With a small power sander you can do the prep in a long, hard weekend. Maybe less as I had to sand off a lot of excess bottom paint as well. (see earlier post) Remember most of the sanding is just to scuff the surface, you're not trying to remove a lot of material.

Fill in the major chips and scratches and block sand them smooth. Fill in the minor stuff if it really bothers you. Accept that you will miss some stuff, but know that your boat will look much better afterwards.

Anything you can see, or feel, will show. The paint doesn't hide or fill things, it's gloss actually accentuates chips, scratches and course sanding marks. Having said that, you get to decide how much of a perfectionist you want to be. I have restored show winning cars, so I just had to keep telling myself "20 foot paint job". Otherwise I could have spent all summer making it perfect, and then it still would have imperfections, just smaller ones. :roll:

If you look for flaws on Copacetic you'll find them, but to the casual observer, it looks very good. From 20 feet it's perfect! We already had someone at the storage facility stop by and tell us how nice it looks.

As someone mentioned, try to do it on a day with little wind. We put our first coat on with gusts to 30mph and it wasn't a huge problem it just dries very fast. As for bugs and dust you'll get some, but not as much as you'd think. A little breeze will help to keep the bugs at bay though. BTW if something lands on your still wet paint DO NOT TOUCH IT. You'll likely do more harm than good. Let it dry and then you can fix it.

PS
Just in case anyone has read this far... For removing the vinyl stripes, my Harbor Freight Multi-Tool worked like a charm with the scraper attachment.
Tom
1981 Endeavour 43 s/v Pearl Lee
Former 1976 Columbia Payne 9.6 s/v Gin Rhumby
Former 1979 Chrysler 26, s/v Copacetic
http://www.asswhaffleyachtclub.net
http://www.svpearllee.com
NYCSAILOR
Posts: 752
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:38 pm
Location: NY, NY

Post by NYCSAILOR »

wow, thanks...I have the confidence to go for this... was getting caught up in the perfection and doing it right if I was going to do it at all...instead I should just think how lousy my boat looks now -- it looks like a 30 yo boat!...

I got to get over thinking my c-26 has to become perfect again...( probably wasn't perfect outof teh factory) and it will never be a new Catalina...

i just wish a crappier boat than mine would move into my marina instead of more new ones!
C-26, Fixed Keel # 343
User avatar
Alanhod
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1478
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:30 pm
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Post by Alanhod »

It's a good life on the
Honu, 1976 C-22
My Chrysler Sailing Photos: http://s1297.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... ry/Sailing
User avatar
J. Austin
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 351
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:46 pm
Location: Brooklyn, MI

Post by J. Austin »

Tom kathy,
Great pointers.
Boat looks great.
Thats the same color I bought for mine!
so I'm a little biased.

Thanks,
"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails." - William Arthur Ward
jerecaustin.com
Mario G

Post by Mario G »

Tentry your C-26 looks great being an auto restorer I can't wait to get to mine.

NYCSailor When he said white will hide alot, you would be suprised how good it will look after, With the white you will have to be with in a few feet to see most flaws. I think you can easily do it save money and haveing it look great.

Wet down the area around the boat and have a pair of pointed tweesers and most importaint the attiude that you can do this as good as anyone.

Come on down and I will let you practice on my C-22 first then let you do the C-26 just for reasurance :lol:

Prep work is the most importaint and the more thats done the better it will look. get a good quality wax&grease remover use any building to block the wind and have fun.
NYCSAILOR
Posts: 752
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:38 pm
Location: NY, NY

Post by NYCSAILOR »

thanks for the step-by-step, the tips, and the encouragement... I am pretty certain I am going for it...

I like the tweezer idea as well......

what do you do with the "chrysler " logo on the aft sides of teh hull, remove them? paint around them? are they stickers? how do you repaint them?

also, At some point I will have to learn how to do the cove stripes ( and actually get them straight looking ( I heard some complex thing that do tothe compund curve of the hulls you actually have tocurve the stripe for it to actually look straight ( or if you simply do it level strating across -- it will look like it is on a angle) ????
C-26, Fixed Keel # 343
User avatar
tgentry
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 719
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 7:29 am
Location: Rockford, IL

Post by tgentry »

The Chrysler script is a vinyl decal. I removed mine just like the shear stripe (the upper one). I took a good picture of it, in case I ever decide to have one made.

The boot stripe (lower one) is in the gelcoat. I scored along it with a utility knife before painting so I have a line to follow.
Tom
1981 Endeavour 43 s/v Pearl Lee
Former 1976 Columbia Payne 9.6 s/v Gin Rhumby
Former 1979 Chrysler 26, s/v Copacetic
http://www.asswhaffleyachtclub.net
http://www.svpearllee.com
Mario G

Post by Mario G »

what do you do with the "chrysler " logo on the aft sides of teh hull.

You can get new vinyl stickers or have you seen the new winged Chrysler grill emblems on the new cars, I think some of those on the side would look great.

I do stripes by eye but you can take mesurements from the deck to the stripe every six inches then pencle the marks after the hull paint is dry.
User avatar
Banshi
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 691
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:10 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Contact:

Post by Banshi »

It may be hard to see in this picture but I came up with my own version of the logo and had a company make them for me along with my boat name
Image
NYCSAILOR
Posts: 752
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:38 pm
Location: NY, NY

Post by NYCSAILOR »

OMG! what a beautiful boat!!

what paint did you use?? also where did you get the boat name graphics...

How did you paint so tight to the rub rail?

How did you do your stripe (is that a graphic too)

Did you paint your deack? your wheel console? what paint...

thanks I am now a sponge for all this info... I would hate to have a bad result simply 'cause I did not know or did not ask somehow for tips or info..


GREAT job! -- thanks for adding to this great timely and inspiring ( for me) thread... I am gonna do this.
C-26, Fixed Keel # 343
User avatar
Banshi
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 691
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:10 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Contact:

Post by Banshi »

Thanks, I stated what I used above, as to the rub rail I taped it off and it turned out to be a big pain just like tgentry the original poster learned. I don't have a wheel any more. here is a summary of what I used and did http://www.byershome.net/_Boat/hull/hull.htm

Just for kicks here is everything else http://www.byershome.net/_Boat/Boat.htm

Got the lettering here http://www.boatletteringtoyou.com/
NYCSAILOR
Posts: 752
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:38 pm
Location: NY, NY

Post by NYCSAILOR »

nice web site.. thanks
C-26, Fixed Keel # 343
NYCSAILOR
Posts: 752
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:38 pm
Location: NY, NY

Post by NYCSAILOR »

DO you need a primer first? If so what paint did you use?

How many top coats?
C-26, Fixed Keel # 343
User avatar
tgentry
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 719
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 7:29 am
Location: Rockford, IL

Post by tgentry »

Check with the paint manufacturer on primer. Easypoxy doesn't require primer over fiberglass but does over wood and metal.
Tom
1981 Endeavour 43 s/v Pearl Lee
Former 1976 Columbia Payne 9.6 s/v Gin Rhumby
Former 1979 Chrysler 26, s/v Copacetic
http://www.asswhaffleyachtclub.net
http://www.svpearllee.com
NYCSAILOR
Posts: 752
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:38 pm
Location: NY, NY

Post by NYCSAILOR »

Thanks! is that what you used... your pic looks great..

how many finish color coats? I am goiong to go white over ...well... not so white.
C-26, Fixed Keel # 343
User avatar
tgentry
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 719
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 7:29 am
Location: Rockford, IL

Post by tgentry »

We used Pettit EasyPoxy and did the recommended 2 coats with light sanding in between. We used about 3 quarts out of the gallon we bought.

Again, follow the manufacturer's directions for whatever you use.
Tom
1981 Endeavour 43 s/v Pearl Lee
Former 1976 Columbia Payne 9.6 s/v Gin Rhumby
Former 1979 Chrysler 26, s/v Copacetic
http://www.asswhaffleyachtclub.net
http://www.svpearllee.com
NYCSAILOR
Posts: 752
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:38 pm
Location: NY, NY

Post by NYCSAILOR »

thanks...

I was thinking interlux or pettit , I also heard imron makes a brushable paint..


did you consider interlux.. seems to be popular too.

also I will be doing this with my wife so any recommendations would be welcome on how best to work with two people ( who really would like to stay married after the paint job!!)
C-26, Fixed Keel # 343
User avatar
tgentry
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 719
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 7:29 am
Location: Rockford, IL

Post by tgentry »

Imron is a two part (paint and catalyst) system very similar to Awlgrip. I don't know about brush application with Imron, although I have heard of roll and tip with Awlgrip. I wanted to avoid the complexity of a two part so I left them off my list to look into.

Interlux Brightside gets good reviews as does Pettit EasyPoxy. They're similar formulations, a poly-urethane/alkyd blend. I could only find Brightside in quarts which made it more expensive than a gallon of EasyPoxy since I would have bought 4 quarts anyway. Running out in the middle of the job is just not an option. I also used Pettit Hydrocoat bottom paint, so maybe I just prefer Pettit.

I highly recommend two people for the application. One person rolls a nice even coat, the other tips. More skill is called for in rolling to get that uniform thickness, not too much so it sags or runs, not too little so it doesn't cover or level.

Tipping is really pretty simple, just a very light touch and don't try to go back and do it over. Also stay right behind the roller, before the paint starts to get sticky which happens pretty quick. The roller person may need to slow down at times.

As for staying happily married, just remember that whatever goes wrong, is your fault :lol:
Tom
1981 Endeavour 43 s/v Pearl Lee
Former 1976 Columbia Payne 9.6 s/v Gin Rhumby
Former 1979 Chrysler 26, s/v Copacetic
http://www.asswhaffleyachtclub.net
http://www.svpearllee.com
Post Reply