Swinging the swing keel

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gregcrawford
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Swinging the swing keel

Post by gregcrawford »

Ok Captain Scott, I'll start something!

When I was sailing out Beaufort Inlet (NC), my first time sailing the Chrysler 22 in the ocean, I encountered 7-8 foot seas with a fairly close interval. My long shaft Honda 9.9 did not leave the water, although it came close. One of the things I have always read about swing keel boats and why they should not go out in the ocean is that in rough conditions, the keel will start to swing, eventually snap the pennant, and then cause fatal damage to the keel pocket. It is pretty easy to picture this happening if the boat is really hobby-horsing in steep waves.

I know there are a lot of Chrysler guys (and girls) out there who have been in far rougher conditions than I.

Has this keel swinging ever occurred to your boat?
Greg Crawford
Knoxville, TN

1976 Chrysler 22 "Blues Image"

http://bluesimage.blogspot.com/
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CaptainScott
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Post by CaptainScott »

I've had my keel bang while hobby horsing. I had left my keel cable completely lose. I cranked it in and put weight on the cable and that solved the issue.

Not terribly rough weather, just losts of waves from boats and such.

Scott
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EmergencyExit
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Post by EmergencyExit »

One of the nice features on the Cal21 was a hole in the keel trunk that aligned with a hole in the keel head when down. Slide a pin/bolt in and no keel bounce and no way the keel could swing up in a severe knockdown
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Alanhod
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Post by Alanhod »

I've only been out once with mine in whitecaps and a short interval between crest and I too took up a couple cranks on the Keel Cable and no keel bang. Maybe 6 foot waves, with the tops blowing off.

Now of course I high tailed it right back to cover behind Jetty Island, but I must say I was very pleasantly surprised how well my little C22 handled the waves. My long shaft 9.9hp stayed under the water at all times and the hull handled like a little Coast Guard Cutter. Nose up out of the wave, stern even keeled in the following wave. I must say I was very concerned when I turned her 180 degrees with big waves on ether side of my Beam but it handle very well coming about.

Thanks
Alan
It's a good life on the
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My Chrysler Sailing Photos: http://s1297.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... ry/Sailing
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C22Bob
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Locking the keel

Post by C22Bob »

Greg, thanks for bringing that up.. I'm considering installing a keel locking mechanism on my C22. I know some of the Catalina's have such a feature, although I haven't actually studied their design. My C22 has the snubber tension knob for the keel, but I've seen several posts on this forum say how worthless it is. Tensioning the keel cable seems like a solution when pitching forward but I can't see that helping much aft. Having a real lock on it seems like the only way to guarantee stability.
Would like to hear opinions..??

..bob
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gregcrawford
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Post by gregcrawford »

I've thought about a locking mechanism for the keel. The keel snubber device, which is basically some pipe fittings with a piece of plastic stuck in it, is just there to prevent the keel from sliding back and forth on the pivot pin. It does not have enough friction to lock the keel, nor does the keel box have the strength to do that if the snubber could lock the keel.
The best way to lock it would be a pin device similar to some of the other brands. But that is also a means for water to enter the boat. If adequate reinforcement was done to the slanted top of the keel box in the cabin, a notch could be machined into the rounded part of the keel and a pin locking device could be mounted on the keel box above the water line.
But think of the leverage that keel would exert on the pin in the event of a grounding! Extra cabin ventilation could occur. You would only want to lock it in deep water in rough conditions. And other than machining multiple position slots in the keel, only one position would be available.
But I'm shooting from the hip here. I've never had my keel out and have only seen it from pictures and under my trailer.
Anyone else have thoughts?

Are we generating more reading for you, Captain Scott?
Greg Crawford
Knoxville, TN

1976 Chrysler 22 "Blues Image"

http://bluesimage.blogspot.com/
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EmergencyExit
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Post by EmergencyExit »

If you close look here you can see where the pin is on the Cal21 -

http://www3.sympatico.ca/sailpair/21stuff/specpage.html

very top of trunk and top of keel when lowered.

I never had issues with any water seepage with it as it was just above waterline. Not sure where you could add one to the C22. By the way the pin was a small brass bolt, that way if you grounded and bent the pin you had some hope of getting it straight enough to remove..
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C22Bob
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Post by C22Bob »

Greg, yes, the potential for real damage is definitely possible on grounding with keel locked. I was thinking about some type of tensioner that would be spring loaded where it would release under heavy force, but stay engaged during heavy pitching. Im thinking maybe a ball plunger type tensioner that would engage a semi-spherical detent cutout in the keel head. When down, it snaps into the detent and holds the keel tight, but pops out automatically when raising by winch or accidental grounding The keel trunk would need some mods to hold the plunger mechanism, but once done and sealed, nothing actually protrudes into the cabin or needs adjusting so likelihood of leaks are minimized. Just brainstorming...love to hear other ideas....

Bob
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Post by Chrysler20%26 »

My Macgregor 25, the swing keel an swing rudder can be locked down. But I do not sail in deep water all the time. So I have never locked them down.
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clair hofmann
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Post by clair hofmann »

20%26 Likewise on the Venture/Mac 22's. You can put a pin through the trunk and keel like EE's Cal. Like you, I sail in shallow water and don't lock the keel down.
Clair
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astrorad
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Post by astrorad »

There are a lot of these C22s still in service and it seems that the keels are all staying with the boats and doing very little damage in general. Perhaps it is a solution looking for a problem.
Bill
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CaptainScott
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Post by CaptainScott »

astrorad wrote:There are a lot of these C22s still in service and it seems that the keels are all staying with the boats and doing very little damage in general. Perhaps it is a solution looking for a problem.
Excellent thought.

I believe if I were in that rough of weather, in my C22, I'd not likely be sailing for performance. Why not just crank the keel in tight to avoid banging, and motor along or sail along inefficiently until the weather passes or port is reached?

Scott
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Post by N41EF »

I know I'm one of the new-to-sailboats guy around here, but I thought I read in the "instructions" that you onle let the swing keel down a certain number of turns. IAW, it never goes all the way down, and has a strain on the cable all the time. Nine turns on the which comes to mine?

Last time at the lake I let it all the way down then cranked back up several turns.

With tension on the cable you get that high speed hum as water goes by the keel cable at more than 6 knots or so.
1979 C22 S/V Client Meeting
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